On The Level Podcast
Some people think Freemasonry is on the decline, not if we have anything to say about it! Join On the Level Podcast as we explore that Esoteric side of Freemasonry. We talk about the inner workings of our Fraternity, how to apply it's teachings to your every day life to become a better man, and general current events. Join our host and guests as we explore Freemasonry together and bring our ancient craft into the modern age!
On The Level Podcast
Follow Up: The Masonic Career of Host Matt Stone
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In this episode we continue to follow up with our very own Host of the Podcast Matt Stone. Matt was intimately involved with many of the events last year in Masonry that helped shape Florida Masonry and he sits down to tell us where he's going next, what he thinks of the future of Masonry, and as per usual, Chris just continues to derail all the good conversations!
Buckle up and join us for an enthralling Episode!
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Introduction to Matt Stone's Masonic Journey
Speaker 1What we have decided is what to do with the time that has given to us . You've reached the internet's home for all things masonry . Join on the level podcast as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the mysteries , dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of Freemasonry to unlock the greatness within each of us . I have you . Now let's go .
Speaker 2Hello , we are back again , my brother . Well , hello there . Hey , buddy , how are you doing ?
Speaker 1Mr Matt .
Speaker 2Stone , I'm doing great . It's almost like we didn't just do an hour and a half podcast together and doing another one right behind it .
Speaker 1I like that . You've cleaned and washed your shirt and you decided to wear it again .
Speaker 2As .
Speaker 1I have . I yes , we're very responsible .
Speaker 2Yep and brothers , this is a . I love this shirt . I mean , the money for that that was raised from making these shirts actually went to charity , so I didn't care at all . I just love the shirt . I mean , it's a . It's a great inside joke for a lot of people and like two people are going to get pissed off about it .
Speaker 1But yeah them , yeah . Well , those people are always upset . Let's be honest . Yeah for sure , give them something to chew on . Well , we are here recording a new episode of On the Level Podcast where we want to talk about the continuation of our host , brother Matt Stone's Masonic , his continuing Masonic journey . We did one of the last podcasts that we put out before . All the mess that I got us into was you and your journey so far in Freemasonry , and I feel like this Grand Lodge is like chapter two , so I thought we could maybe start to cover chapter two in the book of Matt .
Speaker 2For those brothers who haven't seen the episodes and haven't been following this journey of mine , first of all , go watch the episodes . What are you doing , seriously ? You've got the time , just go watch them .
Speaker 1You have plenty of time . Listen to it on a podcast while you're driving in the car , or if you're watching on YouTube , you can hit the like button or hit the bell or subscribe so you can get notified every time that we do a new podcast .
Speaker 2Exactly so either way , yeah , so it's been a very interesting journey so far . For those of you who don't know , I've only been a master mason for about 18 months . I first started talking to Chris when I was a fellow craft of of . Hey , I've got some issues going on at my lodge , turkey creek number 248 . Uh , rest in peace . So , um , and I'm just kind of giving you guys the elevator pitch , um , but either way , it was , got into that lodge , got a reprimand by the newly installed grandmaster , june of last year . Yeah , so sad , so sad . So , uh , got a reprimand , went through a lodge rebuild , charter pool trial where I testified on both sides of the trial . And then I go to a new lodge , lakeland Lodge 91 . And my worshipful master gets pulled by edict by the exact same grandmaster that pulled my charter .
Speaker 2So the same one that brought me up on charges . That would be one and the same most worshipful . Yeah , it was a . It was a very interesting masonic year . Uh , to to be totally transparent about it , uh , it was difficult . In this year I have memorized , um , all the the ritual work and opening , uh , opening , closing in all three degrees . I can now sit in any chair and I can do any of them from memory , except for Chaplin , chaplin's , the only one I haven't memorized yet .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's a whole different book , the brown card it has the blue book .
Speaker 2Yeah , that was my Masonic year , the first Grand Communication . We had a couple of hot button items on the agenda and so I only had really two , potentially three , things that I wanted to speak on . The third thing actually never came up because it's not through the process yet , so there's nothing to speak on . It wasn't even brought up or mentioned . So either way , yeah , first grand communication , I'm not gonna lie to you brothers , going into it , I was done with masonry . I was totally done with masonry , cause it's like , look , if this is what masonry is and it's , you know , it's this heavy on politics and all this other stuff . I don't want anything to do with it . You know I'm good . I've got other things that I could do , spend my time on . I could go make money , right , yeah , so I could spend time with my wife and kid , who I spend a lot of time away from them doing Masonic stuff . I was done going to our grand communication . I was done and sat through your appeals . So I did not go on a fishing trip . I had to go down to the Keys to take care of some stuff with our rentals down there , drove back , sat through your appeal . I was dog tired . I'm not going to lie about it , I was tired . It was interesting .
Speaker 2I'm of the opinion that whenever you go through a trial in masonry and again , I'm still new , so some of you people that have been at for 30 , 40 , 50 years you could think that I'm full of garbage right now , and that's perfectly fine . You're not going to offend me by saying so , but going into it I was of the mindset . I think a trial or an appeal should be trying to achieve harmony , not to dole out discipline . And that's kind of what I saw with the trials and I saw that with the appeal is it was very heavy handed , it was very aggressive . And I'm sitting there looking at this and I'm like look , don't we learn in our entered apprentice degree and don't we learn throughout our catechisms that the goal should be if you see a distressed worthy brother or you see a brother who's down on his luck or whatever the case might be , help him . Help him , don't just you know , if he's down , don't kick him while he's down . That doesn't make sense , right ? That's when he needs you the most .
Speaker 2Yeah and so dress you know we talk about . You know help , aid and assist you know we talk about in the entered apprentice degree of um , you know . Do you have anything of intrinsic value ? I mean , we talk about these things and everybody knows what I'm talking about whenever I say those things and I didn't see any of that , you know . Just kind of like with the trial . My experience with the trial is the two brothers that were there were factually correct in what they said but neither one of them handled it properly . You know .
Speaker 2But , only one of them wound up getting suspended , correct . So either way , going into grand communication , I was done Sat through your appeals . I thought it was very aggressive , it was very heavy-handed . Your counsel did a phenomenal job at representing you . I mean , I cannot speak highly enough about Most Worshipful Glenn Bishop and Right Worshipful Joe Fladys Jr . I can't either Phenomenal brothers , and you packed the salon , which was interesting .
Speaker 1I wasn't sure if they were there to support me or just to see the train wreck .
Speaker 2I think there's probably a little bit of column A , a little bit of column B , probably .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , I know the guys from my district and you guys and the ruffians were there to support me .
Speaker 2And so are some of the past grandmas , yeah , yeah , and so , uh , so , either way , uh , we go , we sit through the appeal . You get a five-year definite suspension . Yeah , and I'm like , dude , you just killed this guy's masonic journey and career like you just murdered it . There's no way he's coming back after this , no way , um , and even still , uh , brother sean cooney , he was ready to walk away at that point . He was ready to walk away at that point , I was ready to walk away at that point . So then you have a senior warden .
Speaker 2I think Cooney's a senior warden . Now you have a senior warden who's ready to walk away and a committeeman , a district committeeman and he's a millennial . He's younger , he's in his 30s and he's ready to walk away . You've got me who . I'm busting my tail , trying to do everything I can for the craft . I've been catechism instructor , I've been a lodge mentor . We're trying to build Lakeland 91 up to a point to where it's going to be a beacon in Polk County , and I was ready to walk away . And you know , similarly , our worshipful master that got pulled by Edict . He was ready to walk away . It was shooing off the younger brothers in the craft . It was literally running them off in droves . So we go into grand communication . Uh , that happens , of course .
Speaker 1You know we have the freedom party the next day , which was stifled , I think is the proper , the proper way to say well yeah , I mean that's why Cooney was so upset , you know , because there were , there were forces actively trying to hurt people and things . You know we had , we had a booth , the Grand Lodge had cash to check , we ordered product which we paid tariffs on to get ready for said event . And then it's like a week before we get the word yeah , we're gonna pull that , you're not allowed to come yeah , yeah , and that was disheartening to him .
Speaker 2I know because he saw how anti the opposite of freemasonry that kind of behavior was right and even still , I really want to hit on this because this is kind of what I experienced through the grand communication and I experienced I didn't , I had a about it , but I didn't see it until the grand communication and then , once I saw it , I was like , oh , that's what this is , and it almost seems like there's two different types of Freemasonry in Florida . And I'm saying types because these two and I thought about this a lot since then is there is the fraternal side of it and the brother side of it , and that was , you know , you and I sitting around a table , you know , having a scotch after your appeal . That's what that was . It was hanging out with the brothers out by the pool . It was , you know , all of that stuff laughing and getting to know these brothers from across the state that you all took the same obligation at our sacred altar . We all took the same obligation . And to have those brothers of like minds there have conversations , that was fun , that was fraternal
Disillusionment with Masonry After Appeals
Speaker 2, that was brotherhood .
Speaker 2But then you also have the corporate side of freemasonry , and the corporate side of freemasonry is more about legalism , it's more about discipline and structure . And what does the digest say ? And what does this comma mean in this sentence , and it's ugh , I'm done with it , man . The bureaucracy of it all . Yeah , and here's the funny thing about it Whenever you have those two different camps in Freemasonry , you're going to have the fraternal side of it is going to look at the legalistic side of it and say that's not Freemasonry .
Speaker 2You're going to have the legalistic side of it look at the fraternal side of it and say that's not Freemasonry . So it's like , guys , we've got to find a happy medium between these two . We have got to have that , and I think we're probably going to have some legislation coming out next year that is going to kind of lead it in that direction . I'm helping with that to kind of marry these two sides of Freemasonry together , because if we don't , and we keep having this split I think it was most worshipful Foster who said it it's almost like in Masonry we're divided as if it's political lines . You know it's insane . You know the political division that we have in this country . Well , we also have in Freemasonry here in the state of Florida , freemasonry here in the state of Florida , and so we've got to find a way to come together and I'm being very open and transparent about that that we've got to find a way for the legalistic and the fraternal to actually come together .
Speaker 1And I think that it seems like there's a movement happening right now that you're a part of , of the younger generation trying to get engaged and trying to submit some legislation that can move us in that direction , maybe removing some of the bad parts of bureaucracy and enhancing some of the interrelations there .
Speaker 2Yeah , because at the end of the day , this is an optional fraternity . We all pay to be here , every single one of us . We pay to be here in this fraternity and , at the end of the day , what separates masonry from rotary , from elks from the critter lodges , all this other stuff ? And there should be something that sets us aside . But if we're going to be so heavy handed on the legalistic side of it , then it's not going to be that . It's not going to be what it should be and what it was intended to be . Likewise , if we lean too heavily on the fraternal side of it , we lose what makes us masons . If people don't do ritual and degree work properly , if you don't run your lodge in a proper manner , it's going to go sideways . So both are needed .
Speaker 1We've got to find a way to have both sit at the table , if you get into a leadership position in the fraternity , then you represent Freemasonry to a lot of people that look up to you and you really are serving in that position . This is a fraternity right , not a corporation . So most of us are getting paid . I know some people do get paid for certain roles , but I oppose that . Actually , I think if you want to volunteer for something , you should be volunteering . Agreed , some people get paid . That's the decisions that they made . I'll live with that , um .
Speaker 1But you know , each and every one of us represents the fraternity to anyone that knows where mason out in the world , right , and you're probably the only exposure they're going to get to free masonry . So the way you act and deport yourself in public is really important . We always talk about how the lodge room is like training wheels for life . We learn how to have disagreements and not yell at each other in the lodge room , how to listen when somebody else is speaking and not speak over them , and show respect to the people that we disagree with . We learn all these skills in the lodge room . The the next step is to take it out into your life and be that way with your coworkers and your boss and your employees and your neighbors Like . Have those disagreements with respect and make sure the person knows that you still respect them even though you disagree with them .
Speaker 2And honestly that was one of the candidates for the Grand South was a brother named Wright Wful . John dragneff , uh , he came to lakeland lodge and he spoke at our lodge . I had actually never met or talked to rob astell uh right , worshipful astell before that . Um , I like him . Yeah , he seems like a decent guy . Um had some great conversations with him , but , um , grand junior warden , yep , he is . He is our newly installed Junior Grand Warden . Grand Junior Warden , I don't know how these things go .
Speaker 1See , I don't get the titles right , yeah titles suck .
Speaker 2So either way , yeah , it was interesting and that's one thing that he talked about Wright Worshful Dragnev talked about is that he wanted to bring in Jocko Willink , dan Crenshaw and , uh , john maxwell , and it was to actually provide and build training , uh , for the lodge , so it wouldn't be like mlt or master mason one , two , three , which those things that you learn in those courses are meant to be internal lessons and and how to navigate the digest and right . You know how to run a lodge and you know make sure that you take out an ad in the paper . Gosh , it needs to be updated , so bad .
Speaker 1Yeah it definitely does . Or notify your local news that you're doing that .
Speaker 2Yeah , notify your local news that you're doing yet another fish fry . I'm so over fish fries , man . Everybody talks to them as if it's the holy grail of masonry . I am so over those .
Speaker 1We have other ways of raising money . We're going to bring the future podcasts that don't involve taking a penny from a mason , so stay tuned .
Speaker 2So Wright , worshful Dragnev talked about that of forming training that was actually showing you how to be a leader . Now I've read Jocko Willink's book Extreme Ownership , and he's got a second one which is Dichotomy of Leadership , and I looked over because it's on my bookshelf in my office right over here . Dichotomy of Leadership , and those are lessons that you can take out into the world and you can apply to your house , your business , you can apply them within masonry , and I thought that was brilliant . I'm like , look , the three symbolic degrees that we go through and all the all the old teachings that we go through are meant to make you a better man outside of the craft . The current mandatory education that is needed is to make you better inside the craft . Now it desperately needs updating . It really does need updating .
Speaker 2But he was proposing here's a leadership training that you can take out into the world , which I loved and I was like , look , that is awesome . I think that is desperately needed . I hope he runs again next year for the Grand Sal . I really truly do . This is the very worshipful John Dragniff you're talking about . Yes , yes , dragniff was awesome whenever he came and spoke to us .
Speaker 1Yeah , interesting idea and I like that . It's something positive new for the craft .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . And not only that , but it helps men be better versions of themselves , because , again , it's lessons that you can apply outside of the lodge . So I thought that was huge . So we go through your trial , or sorry , your appeal . We have the party , you know , the freedom party which was again was hilarious . You know . There was a lot of fun that came out of that , to be honest with you , and actually it's the first time I got to meet you .
Speaker 1Yeah , the people , I think people that saw us meeting for the first time , they were kind of like what ?
Speaker 2It's like , meanwhile , chris and I have been talking for two years , you know , almost two years at this point .
Speaker 2We've been , you know , friends , and you know having fun and everything , and and you know , now we finally meet each other and , and you know , I advised you early on and then you started advising me and we , uh , yeah , we got pretty close , yeah , and and honestly , I've never met in person , so I'm standing next to him and I don't know how tall you are , but he's a sarcastic guy and he's like oh , I thought you'd be taller , yeah because you're like what , six , three , four or something like that , six , two , six , three and I'm five , 11 , on a good day it's like I'm wearing like the Ron DeSantis heel boots , you know to kind of like get me up a little bit taller . You know what I'm talking about that's brotherhood , nice that .
Speaker 2So , either way , we go into the first day , the first official day , which would be Monday , and gosh , the introductions took forever . It took so long . And it's like I was happy to see people from the other grand jurisdictions there . You know the Prince Hall brothers .
Speaker 1Bahamas always come yeah .
Speaker 2You know so , and actually what I was told is that there were less grand jurisdictions there this year than what there has been in previous years , really , because I think there was five . Maybe I say with a question mark , I'm probably wrong on that you spend nearly half your first day on introductions .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , for sure . It took forever . Golly , it took forever . And keep in mind I was driving back and forth . I didn't stay in Orlando for that . I live in Plant City , which is about an hour away , so I was driving back and forth every single day . Yeah , it was like , yeah , traffic was terrible . Of course , orlando is always under construction and it forever will be . Until the end of time it will always be under construction and I-4 is still the living purgatory of Florida . So it is terrible . I hate i4 . Oh yeah , for sure . So we go into the first day .
Speaker 1Um , yeah , all right for the first day pretty uneventful the first day , usually like not a lot happens it .
Speaker 2Well , no , um , there was something that happened that was eventful , and the eventful was , uh , that most worshipful , aladro , got up and gave a presentation on dispelling rumors .
Speaker 1Oh , I heard that they were going around the whole state doing that presentation .
Speaker 2And here's the thing I've got to give . I'm going to go ahead and call them out on it too . Most Worshipful Eladro and Most Worshipful Lynn are phenomenal public speakers . They are so good . I don't agree on a couple of things that have
Two Types of Freemasonry: Fraternal vs Corporate
Speaker 2happened , but they are very gifted speakers . They are so good . I don't agree on a couple of things that have happened , but they are very gifted speakers . I mean , I sat there and watched Most Worshipful Aladro disarm that entire crowd , you know , with a couple of jokes , and it was good . I mean , he actually did an incredibly good job speaking . Same thing with Most Worshipful Lynn . You know he kept making the jokes about selling hot dogs , but he did a great job at communicating his message . So from a speaker perspective , they were really , really good .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , if they've been in that world for as long as they have . I think Most Worseful Lin's been in the Grand Line for what like 17 , 18 years .
Speaker 1Oh , that's funny .
Speaker 2Yeah , he's been there a while . I know Most Worseful Aladro . He's been there a while . I know most worst for aladro . He's been in over 10 um 150 for him I think yeah , so I mean they did a great job . Speaking um again I I I have different points where I disagree with them on okay .
Speaker 1so you're not advocating that the presentation was good , but you're just saying they did a good job presenting it . Correct , okay .
Speaker 2Yeah that , that that's a fair statement . I mean I'm not saying that I agree with the presentations that were given , um , but whenever it comes to how they spoke , they are very good orders . I will , I will give them that credit for credits too . Yeah , of course , I mean , I'm not , I'm not opposed to doing that . So , um , yeah , I got to meet the entire grand line . I mean , I'm not opposed to doing that . So , yeah , I got to meet the entire Grand Line . I got to meet the ladies that work in the office up there at the Grand Lodge .
Speaker 2You know , right , worst fool , rick Windling took me around and introduced me to everybody , which I thought was very nice and generous of him . So he's like , hey , man , let me introduce you to everyone . I'm like I'd rather not . Because you know , and here's the thing , like y'all guys got to understand , like the older I get , the more of an introvert I become , and I was not this way as a kid . When I was a kid like I think I was like 13 , 14 years old he was the life of the party . And so there's this table of very attractive girls that are close to my age , maybe a little bit older , and so my dad looks at me and he goes hey , matt . And I was like , yeah , he goes , go have dinner with those girls , huh . And he's like , yeah , he's like you see that table of girls over there . I'm like , yeah , he's like Go have dinner with them , okay , okay . So I kid you not . I stand up here . I am like 14 years old , something like that , like 14 , 15 . I stand up , I walk over to this table full of girls , strike up a conversation . I end up having dinner with them to the point where my mom was like Matt , you've got to come back to the table . And dad's like let him go , he's fine , he's on fire , he's , he's on it , he's running it . So the older I get , the more introverted I become . And it's like , you know , my social battery just drains fast , you know . So he's like let me introduce you to everybody . I'm like bro , I have been on , and a lot of you younger people know what I'm talking about Whenever I say that . I have been on for hours at this point and I just want to go sit in a corner . Like that's all I want to do . Sit in a corner , yeah , so that happens .
Speaker 2First day rolls around , most Worshipful , aladra gives his presentation . We have elections and the really cool thing about the elections that I thought was super interesting and super neat is that the candidates who lost made a motion for their votes to go to the one , the person who won , so that way it would be a unanimous vote , and you don't see that in politics . You don't see that anywhere else that I've seen vote and you don't see that in politics . You don't see that anywhere else that I've seen . Uh , certainly anywhere else that I've seen . I thought that was actually very wholesome and a sign of unity . I actually really enjoyed that which we need more of a little bit more .
Speaker 1Come on , let's keep it going . Yeah , so , first day , what was the most eventful thing that happened that you can speak about at the actual grand communication ?
Speaker 2First day actually wasn't terribly eventful .
Speaker 1People were like walking out . Was that a fair ? That was the second day .
Speaker 2Okay , it wasn't the first day . Yeah , second day , people started to walk out , which was interesting , so what do you do that night ?
Speaker 1Oh , you go home , right , oh yeah .
Speaker 2You don't hang out . No , no , I took my happy rear end home . I was done , I was checked out . I was like all right , I've seen all the vendors , you know , and the vendors there actually had some pretty cool stuff . Yeah , there's one shirt that I really , really liked and I wish I really liked that shirt and of course , you know , I got this shirt as well . Who is James Mason ? Who is James Mason we ?
Speaker 1will never know .
Speaker 2The mystery continues Now . Something interesting that did happen and this is not Masonic at all , but something interesting that did happen is that first day . This was the most eventful thing that happened to me the entire first day . On Monday , okay Is a bunch of us guys from our district . We decided to go down the road to Miller , miller's ale house , which was what ? Three , four blocks , something like that . It wasn't a very long walk as I'm walking , cause I had to go put some stuff up , so I was like hey , you guys go ahead and I'll catch up to you . Right , as I'm walking , I hear footsteps behind me and I'm like okay , so I , I , I'm weird . I know y'all guys don't have to tell me , I know that I am and I turn , I blade my body and I look to my left and I see a gentleman walking behind me . Um , he's clearly looks like he's . He doesn't have a house . Um , he's clearly homeless and he's carrying a black bag and I'm like like a trash bag , uh , like a , like a grocery bag , a , completely black grocery bag .
Speaker 2And I'm like , okay , but as I'm looking left cause I'm keeping an eye on him Right and I do this with everybody , it wasn't , I wasn't profiling , I'm just like this naturally it doesn't matter who's behind me , it could be Nana , I don't care , could be Nana , I don't care and I look and then he drifts , he starts walking the other direction to get out of my sight . Ok , now y'all guys know I'm into combatives and you know training and martial arts and all this other stuff , right , security , medical training , like that's . That's kind of my hobby that I like to do . So I decide I'm like , all right , that's weird , weird . So I look to my right and he's still walking behind me but he does the exact same thing , where he goes out of my , my line of vision again , and I'm just like , oh okay , that's suspicious , it's suspicious . I'm not attributing motive or accusing anything , you're just making an observation . This is shady .
Speaker 2So I speed up my pace , and you know I don't . I don't have a slow pace whenever I walk . You know he was shorter than I am . I speed up my pace and you know I don't . I don't have a slow pace whenever I walk . You know he was shorter than I am , I speed up my pace and as I'm increasing my pace , I hear him increasing his . I'm like , oh , okay , so now these . These are three data points that have happened where this is weird , okay .
Speaker 2So I look in the reflection of a of a window of a building that I walked up and it's right by that wonder works that house that's upside down , or building it's upside down , yeah . So I look in the reflection of the window and I see that he's closing the distance between me and him and I was like , okay , so I stop at the next road intersection . I put my back against the wall . I've got my phone in my left hand because my gun is on my right hip , so it's like all right if things get squirrely . You're like , yeah , so you know , and here's the thing , I pay money to have insurance for lawyers protect me , and I'd rather there be one story to be told . I'm sorry , it's just the way that I think .
Speaker 2So anyway , I put my back against the wall , got my phone in my left hand and I'm acting like I'm looking for where this place is , that I'm going , and I look and he walks across the street . So , so he walks directly away from me because again , I got my back against a wall . Now , right , he walks across the street and is walking in the median and I let him get a couple of paces in front of me and then I start walking more slowly . He decreases his speed and then gets back behind me again . Okay , all right , fine , I go over to Miller's Alehouse right , I'm just kind of keeping an eye on him . I go over to miller's ale house , I turn to walk into miller's , he turns to walk down the same road that I'm walking down and it's just like , okay , I'm clearly being stalked right now , very clearly , sadly not the first time I've been stalked this year , if you catch my drift . So no , this is different , yeah , different one , yeah the other one was actually trump this guy .
Speaker 2You can turn around and be like what's going on , man well , at the end of the day I walked into miller's , he walked past it and it's so funny . So we have a , a brother at our lodge . I'm not going to mention his name because he doesn't want to be named um , but he's a army veteran um from around about the vietnam era um . And so he's a very , very aggressive dude . But once you gain his respect , he is the nicest guy . He will do anything in the world for you . So I walk in and I explain the situation to the brothers at the table and I was like , yeah , man , this dude was just following me .
Speaker 2He did this weird thing . All this other stuff , this guy and he's super loud . He doesn't have control of his volume . He's like like where's the son of a bitch at ? I started laughing . He's like let's go out there , let's go get him . And I was like bro , like could you imagine if the story that came out of the grand lodge or the grand communication is that a couple of masons went and beat up a homeless guy ? Could you imagine the story ? He was just following the smell . Yeah , oh , dude , it was hilarious . So that was the most eventful thing that happened on Monday .
Speaker 1That's awfully strange , but it's good he just kept going and didn't pursue it .
Speaker 2Yeah , so that was Monday . Again , I'm driving back and forth , I'm getting up at 5 am to be there on time , uh , and to miss all the traffic . So I get home that night , um , next day rolls around and again , so we're sorry . Tuesday now . Yeah , we're on tuesday now and tuesday is where are where the reports ? Are , you know , going to be voted on ? Um , your report came up and and I'm not gonna lie to you , man , we go through the elections and it's like , okay , you know , dog and pony show . A lot of the brothers were calling it a dog and pony show and I get it . That's politics , right was interesting to me because most worshipful glen bishop now your case got brought up and most worshipful glen bishop got up and spoke and when that man spoke first off , it's , this man's got this like booming and commanding presence . I mean , he's , the guy's a savage . I absolutely love the guy we said on the last podcast he's like the living thor , like we need to get him a mule near to carry around .
Speaker 1We should chip in and get him a , get him hammer .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm in , I'm in , let's go . So he gets up and speak and that's when I saw the tide turn , that's whenever I saw , you know , kind of like the mindset of everything that's going on . It really started to shift at that point . So your vote came up and I think it was almost unanimous to reject the report , which honestly made me very hopeful because you had said , after your appeal trial , you had said my fate is now in the hands of the brothers and the brothers had your back , which I thought was awesome .
Speaker 1It was great .
Speaker 2Very surprising , yeah , so that was that . Again , I can't .
Speaker 1I think what it was , man . I think they saw Themselves in Us , like wow , that could have been me . It could have been me that just maybe I said something that made someone mad and you get wrapped up in it , and I think that's why they reacted , because they saw themselves in us . They were like wow , and they stopped it . And now they know they have the power .
Speaker 2Yeah , and honestly that was super interesting to see and it's like , okay , the brothers got it . Sweet , that's awesome . And then there was a motion on the floor to have you retried and again that one was almost unanimous with the exception of five people , and I know one of them personally .
Speaker 2I'll give it to you . I don't care , I'm sure I can give you their names . Yeah , really , there were five people that voted against that . Out of a room of 700 voters 1500 Masons Only five were against the idea of retrying you and I was like cool All right .
Speaker 1Good to be on the right side of history sometimes .
Speaker 2Right , and so that's where I was like oh , this is , this is fascinating . You know , this is really something special , that the brothers actually had your back .
Speaker 1It's for me , but other trials were also returned , right .
Speaker 2Yeah , a lot of them were . A lot of them were returned and I don't know the brother's name . You're going to have to help me with this . He's the Worshipful Master down in the Keys , mock , yeah , mock . His son , mock Jr Again , I don't know his first name . Rock Jr Again , I don't know his first name . I apologize , but that dude is a rock star . Oh , we got to keep an eye on him . He's great . You want to talk about an intelligent brother , can think on his feet , can present himself well and articulate . That guy was awesome . Okay , he spoke on behalf of his father . Yep , and again , that one was overturned and that one was overturned . The one thing that was kind of annoying is , anytime a situation was brought up or that we had to vote or speak on something is that you can only have three , four and three against . There was a motion on the floor to allow it to be unlimited , so that way all the brothers could be heard . Oh , wow , and it didn't even go to vote . It was just no , we're not doing that .
Speaker 1So yeah , grant the grand line said no .
Speaker 2Yeah , the grand line said no , and so it's like okay , then we're going to keep doing three four , three against . Now the one thing that was kind of annoying and a little frustrating is you would have brothers who would get up and they would speak either for or against , and so you know , the grandmaster would say are you for or against ? Well , they'd be like I'm against it . Okay , present your . Okay , present your case . Well , I just have a question about the definition of this and so what that did . Is it really limited the ability to be able to speak on certain items ? Because you only got six slots both ways and nobody else was really allowed to speak . So maybe we could change that in the future to let the brothers be heard . Or hey , I have a clarification question and instead of it being , are you for or against ? Answer the clarification question and then they can say if they're for or against . Right , I think that would probably be a better way to handle it . But I also see the logic in . You only have a fixed amount of time .
Speaker 1Grand Lodge is only three days , you've got to get everything done in those three days , but they take their time right .
Speaker 2the grand line takes more than every other brother gets to speak their piece yeah , and honestly , that that's what happened with , uh , the situation about turkey creek , um , to say that , um , trying to think of a way to word this or I won't get in trouble To say that it was a spirited conversation between Most Worshipful Cowart and myself is an understatement . It was a very intense conversation . I should call it a debate . It was a debate . And now keep in mind and I'm still .
Speaker 1Is he on the floor or is he up on the dais thing ? He's sitting in the Grand East thing . He's sitting in the grand east . He's sitting in the grand east and you're down on the floor .
Speaker 2So we're going toe-to-toe . We're going toe-to-toe while I'm standing , while I'm standing at a microphone which they did shut off on me . Um , they shut it off while you were speaking , yeah , yeah , so it was hilarious too . Um , you know , he , I think , spoke for probably 10- , 15 minutes on just how bad Turkey Creek was , and I'm sitting there listening to it and I'm like man , some of these data points are false , they're just incorrect and I don't know .
Speaker 2Again , I'm not mad at the man . I want to be very clear about this . I'm not mad at the man , but the action as the grandmaster , I disagree with yeah Right , disagree with yeah Right , and it's again . It's not that I'm mad , but you know , let's , if we , if we would have had the opportunity , or if we would have been , if we could have sat down and talked myself and the grandmaster here's what's going on at Turkey Creek . Here's what I want to achieve . Here's this information . Here's that information . Can I make this work , yes or no ? I think we could have made it work without it blowing up into what it blew up into . Most definitely , you could have , yeah , but the problem is I was never given that opportunity . You know , anytime I tried to speak to the grandmaster . It was like high by and then going right . So it's like , okay , if , if that's the way the man conducts himself , I'm not mad at it .
Speaker 2Everybody's got their own little quirks . As we're talking about Turkey Creek again , he's putting out some data points that are incorrect . For example , one of the ones that he said that we only had three people at our lodge , two or three people at our lodge that had completed Master Mason 1 , 2 , 3 in MLT , and I knew that to be factually incorrect because I was one of the ones that had it done and I was not counted amongst those people . So I knew that to be incorrect and I stood up and I said , most worshipful , with respect , that is not accurate . There were actually nine brothers and we were hosting you know was it Master Mason one , two , three . We were hosting that at Turkey Creek .
Speaker 2So you know , either way it's . You know I had had three minutes to present my case and , like I said , they shut off the microphone on me . He made another comment from the Grand East that was condemning Turkey Creek about something , and I spoke into the microphone and I said , may I respond ? And I noticed that my microphone had been shut off . So again I probably get myself into more trouble than what I should . I stepped out from behind the microphone and I yelled may I respond ? Left out from behind the microphone and I yelled , may I respond , and I think it was like probably 10 of the brothers out of the , out of the crowd .
Speaker 1They were like let him talk , let him talk ,
First Day of Grand Communication
Speaker 1let him talk .
Speaker 2So they turn my microphone back on and I was able to refute some of the points the conversation got after he and I went back and forth , which again was was a very fun , spirited debate and , and if you're looking at this like a game , right , so you're looking at this like a chess match , or- .
Speaker 1Which is how you look at it .
Speaker 2That's how I look at everything . I'm not emotionally invested in Turkey Creek , but I am gonna play this game and I'm gonna have fun with it , right , right . So , and I told everybody who was involved with it . I told them the exact same thing no-transcript . Want to go out and get a drink , have a cigar ? We'll laugh and cut up and talk about the stupid stuff we did as teenagers . I don't care . Like you know , let's still have your disagreements too , yeah , yeah , of course .
Speaker 2Like I said , we went back and forth . There was a motion on the floor to restore the charter of Turkey Creek . The conversation turned at that point because whenever I started talking about the qualifications of MLT and Master Mason 123 , I mentioned that there were nine brothers who had that I said . The problem is is it goes from the brothers to the instructor , to a reporting and then to the grandmaster's hands , right , so there are four parties involved here , and if it did not get reported and it did not get to the grandmaster's hands , that is not the brother's fault . The brother took the class , right , it's not the brother's fault that didn't get to your hands required right .
Speaker 2Uhorshipful Cowart then responded with it is the job of the secretary to make sure that it's reported .
Speaker 1The secretaries can't record that in the Grand Lodge database .
Speaker 2So that kind of goes back to the legalism side of it of pushing off the work onto other people . I believe that to be a legalistic approach . I disagree with it . I don't think it's the secretary's job to do it . I think it's to the people that you appoint . In that grand line . It's the people that are appointed , it's their job to do it . It's not my job . I did my job . I went to the class .
Speaker 1That's just in keeping with the way that decisions were being made all year .
Speaker 2A bunch of brothers stood up and started talking about MLT and Master Mason , one , two , three and all this other stuff and the the conversation started to drift away from Turkey Creek and towards another issue I think we have in the craft right now . But either way , it got voted on . There's emotion on the floor . It was seconded , it was voted on and about 40% of the brothers were for Turkey Creek getting a starter back and about 60 percent weren't . So , essentially , I had , you know , three to five minutes to speak .
Speaker 2Um , especially with the back and forth you know I wasn't on a timer at that point um , I had three to five minutes to speak and I was able to convince 40 of the craft and I consider that a win personally , um , especially with how flipping nervous I was there . I'm I'm not on home turf at this point and I've got the Grandmaster sitting in the Grand East and he's speaking to me and I'm speaking to him and again , it's spirited . I'm not going to lie about it . It was probably the most spirited conversation that happened on the floor and I'm using that word specifically .
Speaker 1So how were you personally feeling when you sat down from that exchange ? Were you like , oh my God , I just screwed up horribly , or were you ? No , no ?
Speaker 2no , I don't regret any of that . The only thing that I regret out of what I said there is I mentioned a right worshipful by name and it made him look bad and I actually genuinely respect the guy , but I mean , it was in the middle of a debate and I did not think about that at the time . I regret saying his name , um , but the facts that I said are accurate , right . So , um , and again , he's a guy that I respect and this is a part that that really kind of upset me . Um , from grand lodge . Um is , here was the , here was the interesting thing about it .
Speaker 2I've got this weird thing and I again I keep telling y'all that I'm weird . You're gonna figure it out that if I'm in a scenario where I should be panicked or I should be nervous , I should be name a thing . If you're in a situation where you're nervous , typically your thoughts get jumbled up , right . I think all of us , whenever you're doing public speaking , we've all experienced that I don't have that . My body will act as the emotion should dictate . So I looked like I was nervous , I spoke like I was nervous , but mentally my thoughts were very clear , and so that's a nice trick , it , you know , I , I developed it back whenever my dad , um , I started working on it and noticing it back whenever my dad had cancer , um , because we were at a point where he was over here at a local hospital and they were like , hey , you need to call in hospice , he's done . And so , you know , as a 20 year old kid , you hear that your dad's about to die and it's , it's pretty intense . I mean , that's an intense thing . Yeah , um , you know , and , and it wasn't any of that , it was okay , what's our next step ? So it's like none of us were upset . It was what is our next step ? We're going to keep fighting this .
Speaker 2Now , later on that night , yeah , I bawled , my , walked to the back of the room and there is a right worshipful who I truly respect and love I really do and he was furious with me , furious , um , and I , I shook his hand and he goes . I disagree with everything you said right now , right then , and I said that's perfectly fine . I said disagree , we're on two sides of this conversation , but I do still genuinely respect you . I said I love you , I respect you . None of that is going to change . My opinion of you has not changed . It's just that we disagree and I have since sent out two emails to the two guys that I really respect , because I know they were mad the fact that I got up and spoke in favor of Turkey Creek . They were angry about it and it's like , look , I'm sorry , you know we're on different sides of this conversation . I'm not emotionally invested and I still think of you guys exactly the same , and I haven't heard anything back . I doubt I will , but you did the right thing , you tried .
Speaker 2I tried email said I got no hard feelings . I hope you don't . Yeah , I didn't mean to hurt anybody , yeah , so , um , so that's kind of uh , oh , it seems like we have somebody in the audience watching . So that was the second day . I actually didn't stay past lunch . I spoke about you and I spoke about turkey creek . Um , and I I'm like , all right , I'm done . At this point , I'm just I'm going home . Since then , the amount of brothers from across the state that have reached out to myself , to the Turkey Creek page it's called the Ghost of 248 . If you guys want to follow that page , the amount of brothers that have reached out and said how can I help , has been staggering to me . I mean , it has been so refreshing to hear that and to see that that all these brothers are standing up and saying , no , we want to help you . You made a good case . We want to help you . How's getting installed , you know ?
Speaker 1what didn't get accepted . You you know that you gave it your best shot to defend turkey creek and you're getting set up with new meetings yeah , so , um , so that is that's one thing .
Speaker 2That um again . If we , if I , would have been able to have the conversation with the previous administration , I think the whole turkey creek scenario would have been totally different . It would have been completely different because what they had a problem with was the past masters at Turkey Creek , which I get it . I mean , I've told everybody hey , turkey Creek has had its time , where it's been a bit of a rebellious lodge . I'm not denying that at all . I was trying to flush that out with new blood is what I was trying to do , and I just was never able to effectively implement it . And keep in mind , I was studying to sit in the East for a degree . This is something I didn't get to say on the floor and I wanted to . I was studying to sit in the East for a degree and I was so happy with our progress of you've got all brand new Masons that are putting on this degree I was going to invite the entire grand line to come to that degree . I was going to invite the entire grand line to come to that degree . I was going to invite all of them and say , no , come see what we're doing right , because now we've got the plan of action , we've got eight to 11 years of fresh leadership . Come see what we're doing please , because I want it to be . I want Turkey Creek to be a good lodge , or I wanted Turkey Creek to be a good lodge yeah , I just ended up going home . Now the cool thing about that is now most worshipful tally then , right , worshipful tally .
Speaker 2Tuesday afternoon he reached out to me and he goes I want to help you . And I was like huh , you know that , which , which again was a total 180 from what my experience had been so far . So he's like I want to help you . I'm like great , that's awesome , let's do it . I ended up talking to him on Thursday morning . We had about a half hour conversation and he goes .
Speaker 2He started off the conversation with how can I help Turkey Creek get its charter back ? Let's work to get Turkey Creek's charter back , and I said most words full with from where I'm at right now . So he was at breakfast with some people . He stepped away , he gave me a half hour of his time and so I came up with an idea of how Turkey Creek could still be of use . Once that goes through the proper channels , I'll be able to speak on that a little bit more , but that was awesome . I mean , it was really , really cool the fact that now he's been the grandmaster for less than 24 hours and he's reaching out to me saying how can I help you ? Help , aid and assist .
Speaker 1So you make a proposal he has never heard before and he receives it favorably .
Speaker 2Whenever I threw out the idea , he sat there , he was quiet for a little while , to where I was like , did my phone ? Drop the call ? He was quiet for a little bit and then he goes , matt I'm , and I was like , well , it's what's best for the craft . I mean , at the end of the day , my personal feelings are these are my personal feelings is I want Turkey Creek to come back . It's my home lodge , man . I mean , it's the place where I was raised . I want Turkey Creek back . But is that what's best for the craft ? And the answer is no , it's not what is best for the craft , because in five years we'll probably end up being in the exact same situation .
Speaker 2But it can still help the craft in some way , exactly which , which is what my proposal is , um . So I dove into the digest , I sent out the proposal to most worshipful tally , um , most worshipful foster and right worshipful winling , and was like , hey , here's my idea for turkey creek . You guys let me know your thoughts , but at the end of the day , I am out of District 20 . I am in District 21 now and I love being in District 21 . So you guys do with it what you will . I'll help any way you want me to .
Speaker 1So you got a proposal out . The Grandmaster is considering it at this point , or do you need to do more work on your part to get it to over the hop ?
Speaker 2I , I have done all the work that I can . As you know , from my , from my position , I've done all the work I can . I dove into the digest , you know , tearing through a couple of those things , because , gosh , I've read the digest so much this year , yeah me too , have we talked about on the show , by the way , that , uh , my worshipful master at lakeland got removed by Edict and he's facing charges right now .
Speaker 1I don't think so . Okay , he hasn't had a trial yet , right ?
Speaker 2No , he has not had a trial yet . I really hope that is just kind of dismissed , because they were kind of petty charges , if I'm being honest with you , to be honest with you .
Speaker 1There are people who remain suspended or got expelled or are under charges . Currently there's another brother who's in another state and he was too sick he couldn't make it so they pushed back his trial , but all of these brothers got
Fighting for Turkey Creek Lodge
Speaker 1the same problems I had . So I don't know how we help them all , but I hope someone listening can help us find a way to help the other brothers that were kind of treated improperly last year and deserve a fair shake .
Speaker 2Yeah , and honestly I mean again , I kind of go back to the trials and you and a couple of other people , y'all guys keep making the joke that I'm essentially campaigning for Grand Line right now . No , I'm not . I haven't made that joke yet . I think it was cooney who made it . Actually , he's like man , you're gonna be in the grand line one day . I'm like no , uh , no , I don't want the smoke , I'm good yeah no I'm with you on that one .
Speaker 1You couldn't pay me money to get into the politics .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm of the opinion that whenever it comes to and actually , um , uh brother , uh brother , tim um from the panhandle , he has some legislation that he's drafting up that I think is going to be more in line with what is proper and good for the craft . So , for example , whenever we go into trials , I think the goal should be peace . You know not , not condemning . The goal should be peace . Okay , how can we make this a peaceful thing ? Explain why you did what you did . Here's what the digest said . I think a , a reprimand , should be the most used punishment in masonry , I think suspension or expulsion . And , by the way , can we do away with the indefinite suspension ordeal , cause that is the dumbest , it makes no sense , cause you might as well just expel him , you know . So indefinite suspension doesn't make sense , you might as well expel the guy .
Speaker 1It goes through all the same process . It's slightly easier to get back into the fraternity if you're indefinitely suspended than if you're expelled .
Speaker 2Then give him a 50-year suspension ? I don't know , man , I watch some of this stuff and , honestly , as I'm looking at it , you've got people who have been in this fraternity longer than I've been alive and that is a true statement . And so , and actually that's the case for most worshipful Don Coward . You know , whenever he came to Turkey Creek and he spoke about it being that way for 42 years at Turkey Creek , my response to him was and again , this is what got me in trouble Um , my response was most worshipful . I can't answer for what happened five years before I was born . I'm sorry , I got nothing . Man , I need to know where to find answers . Who ?
Speaker 1brings stuff up from that far back .
Speaker 2He had his reasons . I'm not pretending to know his reasons . I don't fully agree with his reasons , but at the end of the day , there's nothing in Masonic teaching that says that I have to agree with everything a person does .
Speaker 1No hard feelings ?
Speaker 2No , not at all , because , at the end of the day , my goal is peace . That's what my goal is , that's what I care about . I want there to be peace in the craft . I want there to be peace in the fraternity .
Speaker 1The past is now behind us . So , let's start fixing things and rebuilding things . Yeah , including trust .
Speaker 2We need to rebuild trust between the Grand Line and the craft that I completely agree with , because you do have brothers around the state that are still hurt and you have brothers that are still being affected right now . For example , I've talked about Worshipful Ryan from Lakeland Lodge . He's facing charges right now and the only thing that he did , or what he was accused of , I should say now they put in his charges . They put like evil speak and unmasonic conduct and all this other stuff you know , like the , the umbrella stuff , right , um , but it's that he didn't specifically follow the digest on removing an appointed officer and there were issues surrounding that because there has to be notification to the craft . There were issues surrounding that that stopped us from being able to do that .
Speaker 2Now , to be fair and this is a rumor that I've heard and I hope the right people hear what I'm about to say when it comes to what happened at Lakeland Lodge , I dove into the digest . I wrote out all the procedures . I wrote out hey , here's exactly what the digest says , here's what I would do , and I actually went with the most aggressive option . I was going hard in the paint because it's like no , we're going to go ahead and cut off the head of this snake right now and just be done with it . They actually did not follow my suggestion . They took their own path , which he's the worshipful master . It's his right to do that right . He did not follow my counsel and my counsel was aggressive . He was being merciful , so which , again I realized what I just said is counterproductive to what I said about trials , where it should the goal should be peace . What I was looking at is , um , this was a scenario where one of the parties did not want peace , and it was very evident that they did not want peace .
Speaker 1Well , I think that that's something important for our new grand mind to remember is that they have the hard task now of regaining the trust of the brothers and really the only way to do that is just to communicate with them . So I hope they're listening and I hope that they understand that communicating is the answer to almost all of our problems . We've got to listen to each other , yeah , and just to hear each other out Right .
Speaker 2And , just like we said on the last , on the last podcast , the offer is open . If anybody from the Grand Line and I truly mean anybody from the Grand Line past Grand Masters , it doesn't matter . If you want to come on to this show , we will give you a fair shake , you know . Explain to the craft what your thoughts , goals , your opinion of masonry , all of that . We'll send you the questions ahead of time . We're not doing any kind of gotcha journalism uh , we're not doing that . But I do think it would be good and it would be wise for us to increase communication and transparency . I think that would be good for the entire craft um 100 percent yeah , especially now and even still .
Speaker 2I mean , we talked about , uh , that if Worshipful Roger Hall had won , that we were going to do like a fireside chat . Yeah , I , honestly , if you're OK with it , because this is your show , I mean , I know that , I just it's our show that's got to stop .
Speaker 1Now . You have to take responsibility for this as much as I do , because it's your show too .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , you're right . So either way , I'm definitely willing to extend that offer to Most Worshipful Tally of you know . Hey , come on to the show . You know brothers from around the country Actually , no , because I've seen the stats on it Brothers from around the world listen to this show . You know we got brothers in Africa from the UK . I mean , we've got people all over the world watching this show . So the offer is open . No kind of gotcha . Let's just have conversations like brothers and say , okay , here's what we're hearing in the craft , what are your thoughts on it ? What are your plans ? What are your goals ? How can we help achieve those goals ? Because , at the end of the day , I think that the brothers of the craft should be helping the Grand Line . Also , I believe the brothers in the Grand Line should be helping the craft . That is a two-way street .
Speaker 1I 100% agree with that . We have to work together and it's not them against us . They have their problems and we have our problems too . We need to fix ourselves . We have a lot in fighting as brothers that we shouldn't have . You know , a lot of littleighting as brothers that we shouldn't have , a lot of little picks and quarrels that we shouldn't have .
Speaker 2We just got to talk to each other . As a past Grandmaster once told me if you don't like it , get the F out . So I was at get the F out stage , but the brothers have really kind of revitalized my affinity for the craft . You know I love the lessons in masonry but all of our lessons are on the Internet anyway , so I could get that anytime I want just by a Google search . The brothers have really kind of revived me in the craft .
Speaker 1So yeah , like you said , you're getting calls now . You have a plan , You're working with the Grandmaster . What does the future of Matt Stone's career look like now ? Let's make this prediction so we can come back and watch this episode in five years . Where does Matt expect to be five years from now ?
Speaker 2So here's the thing Putting my neck out there for turkey creek as I'm not going to say as aggressively but as passionately as I did , it put me on a couple of radars that I don't want to be on , um , so I , I was not a fan of that at all and and I , I was making enemies of people that I had never met . You know , up until you know grand communication , I had never met these people and I'm like you know , hey , how are you ? And it's one of those things where I don't like that Matt Stone guy and it's like I've never met . You like , it's fine if you don't like me , but at least you know , get to know me . And you know , let's go from there , um , so , going into it , I was done . Coming out of it , the brothers have revived me . What's on the future for me ?
Speaker 2Right now , I honestly I want to settle this situation with turkey creek , um , which I'm very excited , uh , for what's going to happen there , because , again , it's going to be what's good for the craft . It's not what's good for me , it's not what's good just for turkey creek , it's good for the whole . I want to get through that . I want to be quiet for a little while because I'm tired . You want to talk about busting your tail in the quarries man ? This year I did it .
Speaker 2I also want to get through Worseful Ryan's trial . I want to see him fully restored . He's a very dear friend of mine . I absolutely love the guy , so I want to see him totally restored . That's another goal that I'm working toward . After that , I just want to be a lodge instructor , a mentor , a catechism instructor , whatever , and let me go through the chairs and just kind of enjoy some time of peace and actually fall in love with the craft , because I've got brothers that have been in it for 30 , 40 years . They're like man , I love the craft and I love everything that it is and all this other stuff . And I asked them and I've said it here on the show before I'm like I wish I knew what you were talking about , because my first year sucked . It was absolutely terrible .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's not going to be worse than that . That was about as bad as three Mason Reeds that was rough man .
Speaker 2It was rough and I would be curious because we started off the year with 28,000 Masons in the state and we were basically for the brothers that died off and the brothers that came in and were initiated . We had about a one-to-one ratio , but over the last 10 years in the state of Florida we've had a 22% decrease . Nationally it was 24% . I would like to see that change . I'm curious this past year how many brothers we lost . So whenever that census comes out of how many brothers are actually in the state now , I'm really curious to see what those numbers are .
Speaker 1The focus wasn't on growing the fraternity . There's a certain group of people that think it needs to shrink that . That's a good , healthy thing .
Speaker 2Shrink further than it has . I don't think it needs to shrink . I've heard a right worshipful say at one point it's not about quantity , it's about quality . I can give you a very good picture of how that looks over a long period of time . Yeah , but you can have both , yeah yeah , I agree with that , you can definitely have both .
Speaker 1You can have a big organization full of the best guys .
Speaker 2Yeah , and honestly , there's a lot of churches that do that . Where they're like you know what ? We might be 50 people sitting in this room , but you , you know what it's about the quality of people and it's like no , if you're in a church , your job is to bring people in and to tell them the good news . Same thing with masonry . We're about making good men better , bring the good men in . So shrinking the organization intentionally and this is just a numbers thing shrinking the organization intentionally , whether it be church or whether it be masonry , is not going to be a net positive .
Speaker 1That's actually going to damage . It's going to do more damage than it is anything . And it's so easy to bring people into the fraternity . It's
Working with the New Grand Master
Speaker 1so easy and the guy who took over my job at the Grand Lodge Marketing Reimbursement Program is really doing a great job , but he's just not getting support from the people at Grand Lodge . So they have to be bought into it if they really want to make it happen , and it will happen if they buy into it . So here's crossing my fingers that that becomes a big issue for them . Is fixing this membership problem soon ?
Speaker 2So you want to talk about brothers working in the quarry ? I don't think it's any secret and I don't think this is controversial at all in saying this , but after this past year in masonry and again , my last year in masonry sucked . It was terrible .
Speaker 2Um , yeah , yeah , yours too , uh I think , the grand line has got a lot of work to do in the quarry right now . They really really do um and I'm here to help them . You know I am here to help . I will help , aid and assist those brothers in any way that I can , absolutely I want to see them win .
Speaker 1If they win , we win yeah , so let's all win together .
Speaker 2Yeah , and so again , um , I'm , I believe that . What's that ?
Speaker 1no , you're not . You're going to come on this podcast and I'm going to keep making you talk . And we got to talk about as things develop at the Turkey Creek situation . The brothers , I'm sure , want to hear updates on how that's going . So we're going to need to hear about that and it's my sincere hope that we can interview some Grand Lodge people in the near future and let them talk to the younger brothers of the craft . Yeah , that maybe don't get exposed to them because they don't go to the events they don't . You know , they don't like the dog and pony show . So , yeah , new media is a way that you could talk to every single brother .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , you can talk to brothers from around the world just using this right here .
Speaker 1It's a very good tool to have , it would be great to have our Grandmaster come on this podcast and talk about strength , harmony , because other grand jurisdictions , from what I understand , were really watching hard what was going to happen in our grand communication . I'm sure there's a sigh of relief that the brothers took some action , um , from other jurisdictions that were looking at us under the microscope .
Speaker 2So they have work to do , not just internally but to our outside brothers that that saw , yeah , the disharmony we had and honestly , after grand lodge and I think it was this way with a lot of the brothers that I talked to it was almost like a sigh of relief . Whenever Wednesday rolled around , it was a sigh of relief . It was just okay . Now that's behind us . Now how can we move forward in a productive manner ? I did notice that amongst the brothers because even whenever you were walking through the lobby of the Rosin like you could feel the tension in the air . You could feel it like I was there .
Speaker 1Obviously , I was there the weekend before and it was not like any other communication I'd ever been to . There was a lot of people just in smaller groups .
Speaker 2like keeping it quiet in smaller groups like you can get quiet and well , especially , especially , whenever and and you know what I'm talking about whenever I say this especially whenever we're sitting there right after your appeal and then a group of people go and sit at a table right across the walkway from us and we're like , yeah , that was .
Speaker 1It felt like it was on purpose , but I guess I don't know for sure .
Speaker 2And here's the thing that's not Masonic . What happened to trigger that thought in your brain ? What caused that and what caused that was not Masonic , right ? So not that you had the reaction , your reaction was justified . But whenever you have , you should be able to have open communication with your leadership , and I think we're finally back at a point where that's a little more acceptable . The brothers are going to be . You know , they've kind of quelled down a little bit or quieted down a little bit . I think the brothers are going to be all right . Let's get back to peace and harmony .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean they're ready for it . They're ready for the good stuff . So I think we're all ready for it . Let's see it . Yeah , and next year . I hope you try to shake the brother's hand , who wouldn't shake your hand this year and hopefully he will next year .
Speaker 2I hear he may be retiring so I might not get the opportunity . Oh , that would be disappointing , honestly , and that's the funny thing about it . Look , if you hate me , that's fine , but at least sit down and have a conversation with me of why you hate me . I'll hear you out . I will never get mad about that . It's like no , let's have a conversation , because the only thing is he . So here's the thing . This is a fair thing to say .
Speaker 2There were people in last year's administration that they , I'm gonna say , hated , hated brothers in the craft based off of what they heard somebody else say . Because I didn't have a conversation with any of these guys . So there's only one person out of the grand line last year that I even had a conversation with . So , and then , likewise , you had a lot of brothers in the craft and again , this is a fair thing to you had a lot of brothers in the craft and again , this is a fair thing to say , you had a lot of brothers in the craft that they hated people in the grand line because of what they heard .
Speaker 2Brothers Masons talk a lot and not all of it is accurate . You've got to find the truth , and you and I had a scenario about that last year where we're on a Zoom call and it's you know , well , this person did that , and this person , you know , did all these other things . And I said where's your proof , right ? I don't care what other people are talking about , where's your proof ? Well , I've seen it . Then get your hands on it , right ? And then , if it's true , then let's discuss it .
Speaker 1But stop saying it , right , yeah , that's , that's not masonic either , you know you ? Uh , just because you heard something doesn't make it worth repeating yeah and honestly .
Speaker 2And brothers , I say this with love I really do mason's gossip more than teenage girls . It's insane . My wife says that too it is .
Speaker 1You guys are worth a bunch of women hanging out at the air drives .
Speaker 2Oh , and it's hilarious . I find it absolutely hilarious . So again , with how much work I did last year to try to make sure the truth was out there , I plan on doing an equivalent amount of work , if not more , to restore peace and harmony . That's what I want to do , because the past is in the past , now we can put it behind us . And now I want to take time and fall in love with the craft . That's what I want to do , because the past is in the past . Now we can put it behind us and now . Now I want to take time and fall in love with the craft . That's what I want to do .
Speaker 1Good , okay , that's a good answer , and I hope that that happens for you . It looks like it's going to and and then we'll interview again when you're the master of a lodge and then when you're ahead , before you put in your candidacy for the Grand Line .
Speaker 2Don't you dare put that evil on me , Chris Burns .
Speaker 1Then , when you're the Grand Master and I'm 100 years old , we'll do another podcast .
Speaker 2No , thank you . I am okay . I am all right for now and again . That may change in the future , but as it stands right now . I own a construction business , I run an air conditioning business , I'm active in my lodge . I own a construction business , I run an air conditioning business , I'm active in my lodge , I have a three-year-old and I have a wife who I love very much . She's really been in my corner for a lot of this and she's heard a lot of this drama . I don't have the time to move up any more than just regular lodge meetings as of right now . My time will allow me to be a worshipful master and that's about it . I don't have any time for anything else . I'm sorry , the answer is going to have to be no .
Speaker 1I think that's good . You need to pace yourself . Everyone says that , but now you understand . Freemasonry is a marathon , it is not a sprint . Yep , although you've been sprinting , um , you've been sprinting , so it's time to slow down the pace .
Speaker 2Yeah , and here's the thing , brothers , especially you younger brothers or shoot , you could be a 50-year member , I don't care . I truly hope I really hope and pray this for you that your Masonic journey does not mirror mine . My year was hard . It was a very hard year .
Speaker 2The average guy wouldn't have made it through your year . Yeah , and you've said this on a previous podcast from last week that my exposure to church politics and my exposure to local politics because I am on the planning board here locally my exposure to those things and , of course , being a business owner and going to all the business classes and studying , watching people's body language , how they word things , logic , rhetoric , all the stuff that we study , it kind of set me up to be able to handle a lot of the difficulties that I had last year . But again , I really hope nobody's Masonic journey mirrors mine because it was .
Speaker 1It was hard . I hope it doesn't as well , and we have work to do still . So it's not retirement time yet . It's time to get busy help more people .
Speaker 2Yeah , but can I put in a vacation request ? You can , I just need a couple of days .
Speaker 1Yes , it's approved , you've earned it . Keep your phone handy .
Speaker 2We might still call you . I don't know about all that phone handy we might still call you .
Speaker 1I don't know about all that . Well , listen , you have had a very unique journey and you're at a great place right now . What would you like to say to the brothers that are listening in Florida ? And ?
Speaker 2beyond One thing that I learned in this past year masonry unites us in a way that is super unique . I was not expecting brothers from other states to call me and say how can I help , and they actually put effort forward , you know , to help us here in Florida and to help me personally . I mean it was absolutely insane . So the help , aid and assist part was so evident with the brothers in the craft and it was so evident with brothers in other states . I had people from multiple states and even other countries calling me saying hey , you know , we're on board , what do you need ? That was heartwarming for me .
Speaker 2Masonry unites us . The politics of masonry is what divides us . We've got to find a way in order to have a conversation and for all of us to come together . So my whole thing is and all of us know it but may peace and brotherly love prevail . That is my goal , that's what I'm working towards . So , like I said , I'm probably going to be a little more quiet than what I have been , but at the end of the day , I'm not going to stop doing what's right . I'm not going to stop fighting for the brothers in the craft .
Future in Freemasonry and Peace Restoration
Speaker 2The fact that I had about three to five minutes to speak about Turkey Creek and 40% of the craft agreed with me shocked me , and especially with your vote and the fact that it was almost unanimous . That shocked me too .
Speaker 1Give me a little bit of this feeling I that shocked me too . That was a little bit of this feeling .
Speaker 2I'm not . I'm not going to lie during grand lodge , like and here's the thing , I'm not an emotional guy at all . I'm very , very logical , like to the point where it pisses my wife off . But when I looked , I was in the back of the room whenever they voted on you specifically and it got me to choke up .
Speaker 1Like I actually choked up a little bit and I was like this is awesome , this is absolutely awesome . I still do , if I talk about it too much . Um , because , yeah , free masonry is really important to me . Um made a part , big part , of my life and I thought it was gone for a minute and the brothers brought it back . So I owe so many people and I hope I can repay people . You know , I hope I get the opportunity to repay everybody .
Speaker 2That that really is shined through the fraternal aspect in that , the fact that these brothers did not forget the teachings that we learned in the three symbolic degrees . They did not forget it . They stuck true to their catechisms , the obligations , they stuck true to all of that . I mean , there was a lot of talk about well , we all took the same oath at our sacred altar and it's like , well , we did , and I'm watching these brothers apply it and they're applying it very well . So that was that was . That was heartwarming for me . Uh , it really was . And so , brothers that were there , even if you voted against me , and even still today , if you hate my guts , um , I still love you . Um , you know , I'll still do anything in the world for you , um , you know , and if I can't do it , I probably know someone who can . So how can they ?
Speaker 1reach out to you if they do want to give you some feedback , or offer any assistance to you .
Speaker 2You know a lot of brothers have been reaching out through the Ghost of 248 . It's the previous Turkey Creek page , but they've also been reaching out to me directly . So if you reach out to , On the Level , the Ghost of 248 , or if you reach out to me directly , I have access to all of that . You know , I want to hear from the brothers . Even if you disagreed with me , I still want to hear it and so that way I can justify my position , because I only had three minutes to tell what I saw was the truth . And there's more to the story . Obviously , I'm not going to talk about it right now , but there is more to the story .
Speaker 1There is so much more to the story . That's why I say if the brothers heard the whole story , you would have seen a nearly unanimous vote for Turkey to keep its charter , seen in a nearly unanimous vote for Turkey .
Speaker 2Creek to keep its charter . But again , I only had three minutes but at the end of the day I'm focused on again , peace and harmony . That's why I put forward this proposal about Turkey Creek . It goes against what I want personally and emotionally , but it's what's good for the craft .
Speaker 1It's a good solution . I'm very impressed and excited for everyone to hear about it . I hope it comes to fruition . I will be there to support you and that lodge if things go in a positive direction , like we hope they do . Are you kidding ?
Speaker 2You're going to be my installing officer . What are you talking about ? I would gladly do it , gladly . So that's it for my review of Grand Communication . I was tired , I was frustrated and the brothers have brought me back to life . So , brothers , thank you . I really appreciate it .
Speaker 1Yes , all right , that's about it for us in this episode of On the Level podcast . If you haven't , give a like , maybe share it with your brothers . We're really trying to get people to subscribe and follow us so that we don't have to keep chasing you all over the Internet . So if you happen to listen to this and you didn't hate it , please do like , subscribe and share , and give us suggestions for what you want to hear ,
Final Thoughts on Brotherhood and Unity
Speaker 1who you want to talk to . Maybe you yourself want to come on the show . You have an idea that you want to share with the craft . We are a vessel for positive change in freemasonry , so please do reach out to us . Until next time , this is On the Level Podcast and we are out .
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