On The Level Podcast
Some people think Freemasonry is on the decline, not if we have anything to say about it! Join On the Level Podcast as we explore that Esoteric side of Freemasonry. We talk about the inner workings of our Fraternity, how to apply it's teachings to your every day life to become a better man, and general current events. Join our host and guests as we explore Freemasonry together and bring our ancient craft into the modern age!
On The Level Podcast
Masonic Wisdom Meets the Paranormal with Brother Mikey Juan Acevedo PART I
Ever wondered what happens when Freemasonry meets paranormal investigations? Join Chris and Matt as we welcome the ever-curious Mikey Juan Acevedo from Sarasota Lodge No. 147. Mikey, host of the popular "Beyond the Boundaries" podcast, shares his journey through the world of cryptids, UFOs, and the unknown. We'll also share some laughs as Matt recounts a renovation project that didn't quite go according to plan.
Mikey and Matt dive deep into their Masonic journeys, reflecting on the unique generational dynamics within the lodge. Matt recounts his memorable role as the Tyler of Sarasota Lodge and the peculiar challenges of Masonic traditions. Through engaging stories and humorous anecdotes, they explore the importance of authenticity and scientific rigor in paranormal investigations, debunking common myths and examining cultural beliefs about the supernatural.
Prepare to be intrigued as we examine the mysteries of Skinwalker Ranch, the impact of dreams and spirit communication, and the government's involvement in paranormal research. From the eerie phenomena documented at Skinwalker Ranch to the profound effects of dreams revealing hidden truths, this episode promises a captivating blend of Masonic wisdom and the enigmatic world of the paranormal. Don't miss Mikey's insights and our thought-provoking discussions on these otherworldly topics.
Beyond The Boundaries Paranormal Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61554718513406
Beyond the Boundaries Paranormal Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheBoundariesParanormal
#freemasonry #paranormal #ufo #uap #bluelodge #podcast
you've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join on the level podcast as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the mysteries, dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of freemasonry to unlock the greatness within each of us. I have you now.
Speaker 2:Let's go. Oh yeah, let's get it. We back, matt, we are back, we back, we back, let's get it.
Speaker 1:We back Matt. We are back, we back, we back. Let's get it. Look who's back Back again Old guy's back. We are catching up on content. We've been slacking. My fault, I've been busy. I think you've been busy, Matt. You've got a promotion in your lodge and you've got a lot of stuff going on in your lodge. You've got a promotion in your lodge and you've got a lot of stuff going on in your lodge.
Speaker 2:Promotion is a very strong word that I don't think it applies, but yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 1:Well, let's call it a wartime appointment.
Speaker 2:Then Bill Katsoulis called it that, wright Worsh called it that. I love it.
Speaker 1:A wartime appointment. They'll listen to this after. We're going to release this directly after the Katsoulis podcast.
Speaker 2:So they to this after the.
Speaker 1:We're going to release this directly after the cats who was podcast, so they'll know what we're talking about. Yeah, good, and we have a special guest with us today from my home lodge, sarasota, lodge number 147, mikey juan asafito, our brother mikey, our installed Tyler. Welcome to the podcast, brother, mikey, thank you. Thank you for having me. What's?
Speaker 2:up brother. So to be fair, and I want everybody to know this, the last time I saw Mikey, he and I were in a shower while a 70-year-old woman was watching us. But we're going to leave that story for another time.
Speaker 1:So I don't know that your standing in the fraternity will allow this to lay over until next time. You might need to clarify that statement.
Speaker 3:We'll leave it up to the listener's mind.
Speaker 2:Okay. All I'm saying is she was making it rain, nickels. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3:And her Wow, I still have welts from it. She was throwing pennies all over me.
Speaker 1:You guys are going to kill me before we even start. Damn it.
Speaker 2:That's the goal, man. That's the goal.
Speaker 1:For those of the listeners that aren't aware, matt, in addition to being an AC guy, is also a contractor of sorts, and as is Mikey, and they work together on some construction projects. So no, they weren't in a person's private bathroom while she was outside watching throwing nickels at them. I mean, that's a great scene to have, I think, in your mind. No, they were actually doing a renovation for her.
Speaker 3:I've seen her peeking through the window every once in a while.
Speaker 1:Man. So we are here today because our brother, Mikey Acevedo, actually in his spare time as a hobby runs a paranormal investigation podcast. Would you care to share the name of your podcast with the listeners?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're beyond the boundaries. You can find us on Facebook, instagram, tiktok, any platforms you can think of, so we just talk about anything paranormal, not just paranormal Cryptids, aliens, all that. We get into just about anything.
Speaker 2:We're going to talk about the greys.
Speaker 1:The greys yeah, a lot of people just tuned out. Don't tune out. Listen, okay, listen to what we have to say. I know you think this is crazy and this is crazy talk, but just listen and see what you think at the end. If you still think it's crazy, then okay, I'll never do this again. Just let me know.
Speaker 1:Mikey's not coming back on the podcast you're doing. You just covered a wide range of subjects. It used to be these things were in very siloed buckets. We had a UFO community. We had a ufo community. We had a paranormal community. We had, specifically, cryptids were broken up. We had bigfoot community. We had a loch ness monster community. We had the chupacabra community uh, we got the mothman people out there. So, okay, if you're not familiar with what us crazy people talk about, cryptids are any kind of a creature that can't be explained by modern. You know we don't know about these. They're not in our catalog of existing animals.
Speaker 3:That we call them fairy tale animals yeah, they're, they're.
Speaker 1:These are animals that typically show up in stories or things to scare children. Right, everybody tells Bigfoot stories when they go camping. The Abominable Snowman. There's another one. We were talking about this before the podcast started. I'm older than you guys. I know what it sucks to be in my role and be the old man, but that's my role in life, unfortunately now, and so I was born in 1975. And I remember being 17. We were talking about this. I would drive to work at Disney. I worked at Disney at that age and some of the restaurants I worked in there were servers and I was like the guy that would bank out the servers.
Speaker 1:So we had a lot of private time in the room while they're waiting for me to verify their cash, and when I'd have, like the guys that believed in UFOs alone, we would like talk in secret about UFO stuff, like did you hear, did you hear, that they found something at Groom Lake, or did you hear that there's something going on at Area 51? And it was all this gossipy hearsay, and that's the only way you got information about this stuff. There was nothing on public television. There was nothing on public radio, however, like some AM channels started popping up.
Speaker 1:This is like 1992, let's call it 91, 92. And so I would have to listen at midnight on an AM station to get any information about UFOs. There were books put out so you could read some books, but let me tell you it was very socially unacceptable to talk about, think about, believe in or discuss anything UFO related. I think that the other area, like the paranormal, was a little more widely accepted, probably because they made a lot of movies about it. We had the Exorcist and we had what was that other gross one where they built their house on Indian land.
Speaker 3:Poltergeist. They made a couple of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a lot of those kind of movies, but you didn't see a lot of alien stuff back then in the 80s and 90s and then Steven Spielberg came along.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, he did make a movie in the 70s I believe. I think that was the late 70s, when he did Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Now, are you aware that the man the only scientist the government employed at that time to work on an official government project was in Close Encounters of the Third Kind? I did not know that. Yeah, yeah, the scene where the aliens come down and all the scientists are like walking forward, you know, in that big hangar, right, he's one of the scientists at the front of that line and he was the guy that was the government-employed scientist in Project Blue Book.
Speaker 1:He's the guy that investigated all those, so we'll get into that. Yeah, there's a terribly weaved web when it comes to UFO stuff and our government and our media Look.
Speaker 2:depending on how fun this episode gets, I'm probably going to start busting out the Alex Jones impersonation. At some point it's going to start busting out the Alex Jones impersonation. At some point it's going to show up Just be ready for it.
Speaker 1:I love that guy man, I've never seen it. I've only seen the little clips where he's saying crazy stuff and people share it.
Speaker 2:They're turning the frogs gay.
Speaker 3:Is he a UFO guy? I've heard 25% of his stuff is correct.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing. Here's what I don't understand. I don't understand how you're going to call anyone can call the guy a kook. He got the one thing really really wrong, I'll give you that. But the fact that he called September 11th like four months before it happened and it's recorded Really so he called it. He goes airplanes are going to hit the World Trade Center towers. They're going to blame Osama bin Laden. We're going to invade the Middle East. And he called that in like April of 2001. It was insane how. That's a great question.
Speaker 1:How would you have?
Speaker 2:known that that's a very good question. That is a good question.
Speaker 1:No, I don't. I obviously. I know he's in trouble for Parkland shooting or something right. He said it was fake and they sued him and he lost and he owes millions of dollars.
Speaker 2:Dude it's over a billion, a billion now, yeah, so they're railroading this guy straight up into bankruptcy. I mean, his show's still on and everything, yeah. So essentially they found him guilty by contempt or I can't remember the exact name of it, but either way, the court asked him to produce something. He couldn't produce it, so they just automatically found him guilty. So all the court proceedings that you saw on TV and online and everything that wasn't a hey, are you guilty, that's a how guilty are you is what that entire whole thing was. I watched the whole thing. Uh, he had a couple of really good zingers and the judge was like, yeah, you can't talk about the clintons while you're on the stand. It was hysterical.
Speaker 1:I was dying laughing during that whole thing I didn't see any of it and I'm only like cursory aware of it because I don't know. I didn't realize he was like prophetic. I thought he was just like a guy who says like kind of extreme things.
Speaker 2:No, he and even still like the Trump assassination attempt.
Speaker 1:You know, a few weeks back in July he actually predicted that gosh four or five months ago where he's like're gonna try to shoot him at a rally, like so he's flat out was calling this like and he was still statistically, that would be like the, the one that would happen, yeah, yeah. So it's like, all right, you're not exactly prophesying at that point, like you're just saying, okay, statistically that's going to be the best option a man is going to have a heart attack today, like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Someone's going to tie their shoes. I just know it.
Speaker 1:I wear Crocs. Some of that stuff is hard to believe, but.
Speaker 2:I'll check it out.
Speaker 1:If you say it's worth it, I'll check it out.
Speaker 2:He's interesting because whenever it comes to paranormal so he's real big into angels and demons, obviously, but whenever it comes to the alien stuff and there's another guy that's actually been on Rogan called Bob Lazar, I don't know if you're familiar with him or- not.
Speaker 1:So Bob Lazar that show I told you about that was on AM radio back in 1990, they would interview Bob Lazar. Nice, bob Lazar was a household name to us weirdos that were studying this stuff. There you go, but it was like nobody believed. The government said he was crazy and a liar. And so you hear in an am radio even a believer is like in the back of your mind like this could all be crap. But now he's public, he's out there, people are listening to him, like it really happened, like he. You know and this is blowing my mind because I grew up in an environment where everyone thought he was a nut job crazy person I was surprised he was still alive. When I heard he came out, I'm like, oh, they didn't kill this guy, yet Not just him.
Speaker 2:I mean, gosh, if you go back on Joe Rogan's channel on his Spotify or whatever he's streaming on nowadays. But if you go back on Rogan, he's had like Navy pilots on there. He's had like top-end military brass, where they're like yeah, we don't know what this is, it's an unidentified aerial phenomenon, but this thing is pill-shaped and it literally will hit the water and maintain the same speed with no splash, with no, yeah, with no splash. So, either way, they've got like radar of this stuff. They've got recordings of this stuff. Oh yeah, um I. I realize that you probably want to be on here to be the counter voice, but I'm probably going to be the biggest proponent of all of this.
Speaker 1:Just to be clear, Okay, that's good, that'll make it a little less friction. So you know, the thing is, this is all happening in real time right now, as we record. There are government projects today that are investigating these things right now in the United States and in other countries, so this is no longer in the shadows. Don't tune out, because we're talking about things you think are crazy. Just listen in for a minute. Listen to some real people talk about some real things about this topic. We have a semi-professional here with us. Uh, I don't know, can I call you a professional?
Speaker 3:I've been doing this since 2019, so I mean, okay, here we go.
Speaker 1:Have you gotten paid to do a paranormal investigation?
Speaker 3:we don't get paid. We actually um donate. So if a client wants to give us money, we have our own charity that we put the money into and then we go into any autism group that needs money and we donate it to them.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Why autism? My two kids are autistic Both of your children, yep.
Speaker 3:How old are they?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yep, how old are they?
Speaker 3:Two and nine, ten Nine.
Speaker 1:How on the spectrum are they?
Speaker 3:Otis, she's, I think, on the lower Now my son. He's up there.
Speaker 1:Is he verbal?
Speaker 3:No, nonverbal, yeah, yeah up there.
Speaker 1:Is he verbal, no, non-verbal. Yeah, yeah, my daughter's son is autistic and he's not verbal, so I know what a challenge that can be for everybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, when they don't communicate like with words.
Speaker 3:It's really hard and they're already not super good at communicating he's, he's getting a little better with, uh, showing us and, kind of like, dragging us to where he wants to like, if he wants a bottle or something, he'll take us to the kitchen. We'll open the gate up and he'll slam open the door and grab his bottles and drink it. So he's getting, he's showing us a little bit on how, what like, what he wants, what he needs does your daughter help with the translating what he wants?
Speaker 1:well, I know she's only two she's away for the summer, so, ah, okay, yeah, yeah right we even tried to learn sign language for a bit yeah, yeah, yeah, my, my daughter has had to do sign language, obviously not like full-on american sign language, but they learn enough to communicate like food hungry you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we know a little bit, not too much, we know a little bit that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Um so, how did you wind up getting into this paranormal areas? You're, you're a young guy. How old are you now?
Speaker 3:I am actually on monday. I'll be 27 you're 27.
Speaker 1:Okay, your masonic career should be easy to cover. I was there for it. We made you a Mason, a Master Mason, last year, right after.
Speaker 3:Matt. Me and Matt were raised up like a week.
Speaker 1:That's right. A week apart.
Speaker 2:Super close. I was raised December 9th.
Speaker 3:I was raised December 16th yeah, yep, wow, week apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's your, he's your elder in freemasonry. You have to listen to him.
Speaker 3:I know that's right, I mean not only that, you can tell by the gray beard he's got going on too. He's pretty much an elder no, he's actually.
Speaker 1:He's 25. He's younger than you.
Speaker 3:Oh, is he, Is he? I don't know if I believe that.
Speaker 1:That's every member of Turkey Creek, I believe, turns gray within the first six months.
Speaker 2:Honestly yes, my goodness.
Speaker 1:That's not a knock on Turkey Creek. I love you guys. I've never been to Step Foot in the Lodge, so I can make fun of you, I'll knock on Turkey Creek all day long, my guy. It's like that's my family. Only I can talk about my family. Yeah, exactly no, you're younger than me, but you're older than him. You're in the middle here. Oh yeah, I think you're both millennials. I believe You're of the same generation.
Speaker 3:No, both millennials. I believe You're of the same generation.
Speaker 1:No, I actually don't make the cut. Well, you're very young, huh.
Speaker 3:Millennials. They cut it off at 96. I was born in 97, so I didn't make it.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you're in that in-between year that lost generation. What is it? What are you?
Speaker 3:Tell us Label yourself Gen Z, I believe.
Speaker 2:Hang on a second second. I'm looking it up.
Speaker 1:Gen z yeah, gen z, or I gen, was born from 97 to 2010 I gen just sounds so much cooler yeah, it's kind of like saying uh, you know generation x so yeah, generation x is you know, here we, I mean we're walking into things now.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just thinking from like WWE, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. So you're Baby Mason. You were installed this year as the Tyler of Sarasota Lodge. You've been doing a great job. I was at your installation. This man carrying a, carrying a broad sword is a site to be seen. Go on a Sarasota Facebook page and watch the photo of it Carrying a sword like twice as big as he is. It's pretty bad-ass. How has it been for you in Freemasonry so far in your short career?
Speaker 3:I am not going to lie, I would not have done it any other way. It's been amazing, it's been amazing, it's been amazing. So, from the moment I first stepped in and signed a petition to where I am at now, it's been a great journey.
Speaker 1:I was his catechism instructor through all three of his degrees. Oh very nice. I wasn't able to come back and do his Master Mason catechism. They kind of creeped that one in on me so I wasn't there. I apologize.
Speaker 3:My forehead still hurts, by the way, chris, your forehead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why, oh, I knocked you. Yeah, yeah, I was also. I played third base in his Master Mason degree. And let me tell you, if you've never seen me play third base, you're really missing out.
Speaker 3:No, it's the scariest thing you'll ever see. Chris gets so into that role that when you see him outside of that lodge room you're like I don't know if I want to mess with this guy anymore.
Speaker 1:He's a different person. Man, I'm playing a character. You know you got to get crazy eyes with it and everything.
Speaker 2:I have seen two people play third base. One is like this I mean old frail, like podiatrist, from, I think, either like temple terrace or Hillsborough lodge, but either way, like he got, he got into it too. But then the other one is our current DDGM, Roscoe Love, Right Worshipful. Roscoe Love, Now Right Worshipful, is like he's just a grisly-looking dude, always got a cigar in his hand, but he's got this wispy hair and everything. So what he did is he grabbed a shirt and rocked it back on the forearms to where he had the person off their feet. This guy is like 70 something years old, so it's like, and he's like picking these dudes up. I'm like Roscoe, put that boy down First off. This is awesome. I can do this. Train me for that role. That's what I want.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, imagine Chris is like what Six, chris is like what? 6'2". I don't know how much you weigh, I'm a 5'2", 5'3" guy and I thought I was flying through the air when he just you were.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like that is one of the toughest roles in Freemasonry to play, because we are not to do rough and unseemly conduct in our work, so we're not supposed to roughhouse people. It's in the name. The role calls for a little bit of roughhousing. Yeah, by default. So it's like the line there is really hard to find in the right way, because you can go too far and if you don't go far enough, everybody's let down.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, I've heard, I've heard rumor that back in the day, so supposedly like back in the early to mid 1900s, turkey creek was actually a two-story barn, like a horse barn, and so I've heard rumor that they actually used to throw people out of the second floor. Oh, my goodness for third base and I'm like I would pay so much money to see that. Some guy just getting launched out of a window.
Speaker 3:Was there something in the bottom to?
Speaker 1:stop the fall. If you have to do stun training work before your degree, it's not going to be good.
Speaker 2:Looking like Michael J Fox just doing a Wilhelm scream.
Speaker 1:Hans Gruber falling off Nakatomi Tower, exactly Yippee-ki-yatomi Tower.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, yippee-ki-yay EA.
Speaker 1:Wow, I don't know how we got there. Oh, we were talking about you becoming a Mason. Yeah, I'm a big fan. Invite me. I'm waiting for somebody to ask me to come do some degree work, so please invite me. If you have a Master Mason degree, I can do lectures too. I can be a multi-purpose tool.
Speaker 2:But call on me, look, honestly, I might do that, because we start training on tuesday. Now we're recording today's august 10th. We start training on tuesday. I have to sit in the east for an ea degree in october excellent, yeah. So it's like I've got less than two months to prepare for an EA degree. So our lodge we haven't done this in the longest time, but our lodge the way it used to be is that the senior deacon put on the EA degrees, the junior warden put on the fellow craft and the senior warden put on the master mason.
Speaker 2:We haven't done that in like generations at our lodge and so Worshipful this year, dave Worshipful was like hey, by the way, we're getting back to that and I'm like I just got installed.
Speaker 1:Have mercy, sir. You've started to blaze trails, and once that's trails blazing, all you can do is put more fuel on it.
Speaker 2:You can't let off that gas man. You got to keep going. Just don't, don't remind me. You'll have a great time. But the thing and this is the this is the, I guess, kind of frustrating part is like our lodge is so rusty. Is that like? I'm like, hey, by the way, I need a senior deacon for an ea degree, like obviously, that's like the most talking is going to come from that role. I'm like, hey, I need a, I need a senior deacon. And like nobody's raising their hands and I'm like I do not want to have to call on another lodge to have a senior deacon. I really want it to be one of our guys. Yeah, so we'll see what happens with it. We've got three. We got three guys that we're going to initiate in October, nice. So it's going to be three EAs. We're going to track them the whole way through. I'm the catechism instructor too, so we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 3:You just keep filling up your plate don't you?
Speaker 1:This is what pump priming a lodge looks like. One person got to do all the work to get it going.
Speaker 3:That's how it works.
Speaker 1:And then you'll initiate guys that will see how hard you're working and they'll be impressed by it and they'll want to join in and you'll have an army of people. You already got a crew behind you. You got a great situation right now.
Speaker 2:Brother Stone. Look, if anybody at Turkey Creek wants to be mad at me for the seeming hostile takeover that this younger generation is doing, blame the guy on this podcast right now, chris Burns. You as soon as I got, I think I was a fellow craft.
Speaker 1:Yay, more haters. Thank you as soon as I got. I think I was a fellow. Yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2:I think I was a fellow craft and I was talking about how, like our worshipful at the time was doing catechism instruction and like I didn't think it was proper and all this other stuff. And you go, Matt I think it was the first time we ever talked you were like, Matt, build yourself a, a crew of people, and those are your guys, and that's what we've done. We've got like six dudes. Now you're going to really get stuff done. Yeah, We've got like six or seven dudes to where and like, and even that plan of action that you and I need to talk about here on the podcast. But even with that plan of action, we're going to have like seven years of fresh masters. If we don't bring in anybody else, If we bring in these additional three now, we're up to 10. There you go. So it's like all right, we're going to have 10 years of fresh leadership at a lodge. You're going to fundamentally change that lodge, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Make it modern, make it alive again with Freemasonry. Not that it's not, not that the guys aren't good Masons, but is it alive with Freemasonry? Are people trying to be good Masons? Are they trying to be better people? Are they trying to be good Masons? Are they trying to be better people? Are they trying to do charity work? Are they trying to help each other learn and grow Like that's how you know it's alive in your lodge.
Speaker 2:I just want to repaint the place because we have this like burnt orange bathroom.
Speaker 1:Don't talk to me about the color of your lodge. It's not as bad as the pink lodge room. I'll say that.
Speaker 2:But it is a burnt orange or like baby poop style color bathroom. It's insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, baby poop. I haven't seen that in a while. But thanks for the visual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I sent you a picture of the toilets that I had replaced, where I was like, oh yeah, another life in the day of a master Mason. I thought that was just the toilets in your house.
Speaker 1:I had no idea. All right, mikey, mikey, mikey's our guest here, come on out. So you're new Mason and you're getting your feet wet and I come to find out that you have a paranormal podcast. I can't remember how I found out, but there's no way I was letting that one go. As soon as I found out, I've actually, since I've relocated to South Carolina, had some interesting experiences here and even sent some photos to Mike Like, hey, what do you think about this? Is this weird? You know, you kind of helped me out with some logical explanations that made me feel like, okay, that could be, that could be. It could be a reflection off the window. You know, could be, I'm okay with that. Could be a reflection off the window, it could be. I'm okay with that answer. Not everything is unexplainable. Most of the stuff and I don't want to talk for you, but I feel like most of the stuff that you look at you can probably explain, yes, or come up with a logical explanation.
Speaker 3:If you can't explain it, it could be this so what we say is, my wife is actually the bare bad news in the paranormal field, because when someone emails us or they send us pictures on our Facebook or anything like that, she goes and she analyzes the pictures and she has a whole software where she puts pictures and videos like that and she can see if those pictures were messed with in a way. So if they mess with it and they change it, they edit it or anything like that, she'll be able to see it in that software. And then she'll be like, hey, this picture was messed with, it's not authentic. We can't really go off of this picture that you sent us. So I mean, if you have a real picture, can you send us the picture that's not edited? Or, when we get the board, pictures.
Speaker 1:That's got to be a red flag, though, when you get a photo from someone and they've edited it. I'd be like, okay, you're wasting my time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, usually that's what happens. We get a lot of people mad at us, but we got to do what we got to do to make sure it's real stuff. We can't just go in.
Speaker 1:You're not there to confirm their suspicions. You're there to tell them what you think the truth is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we get orb pictures, orb pictures, orb pictures. Usually they're just bugs or dust in your house, so you know how you move around.
Speaker 2:So clean your house, people. That's what we're saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you move around and you see dust and stuff flying around, little particles of whatever just flying around everywhere and people take pictures of it and they're just like, oh my God, I caught something. They're like, no, that's just a fly in your house.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I caught something they're like no, that's just a fly in your house. I've seen that even on like big scientific level studies like Skinwalker Ranch. I'm a huge Skinwalker Ranch fan. I'm going to mention it a lot on the show.
Speaker 3:Blind Frog Ranch is another good one. Which one Blind Frog Ranch?
Speaker 1:Blind Frog Ranch, there's another ranch out there called Bradshaw Ranch, which has got a lot of weird stuff going on. But they actually do a lot of recording on different kinds of technology LIDAR and radar and they measure gravimetric stuff and a lot of satellite geo stuff and they'll record something and they'll be like, oh my god, that thing's moving at like six million miles an hour. And then after they analyze it they're like, oh, it's a fly. Uh, because a fly at that? You know, at that, if he's closer to the camera you think it's far. You do the math, you're like, oh my god, it's going eight million miles an hour. No, it's a fly right in front of the camera. So it even happens, even happens on the high end of these investigations. But you know you lose all credibility if you're not willing to admit the obvious.
Speaker 3:And that's like how we were talking before. You get these shows on TV that have been Hollywood eyes, as you call it. It that fake a lot of their evidence, as we call it, evidence that they pick up or even noises that they hear. They're just like, oh, I heard something and it's just bob around the corner making noises with pots and pans. Yeah, you know, and they, they, they always see, that's what they always show on the on the shows. It's just something, someone that faked it and it gives us a bad name, because then everybody's like, oh, these paranormal investigators, they're not legit, they're not anything fun and it's for the people that are actually trying to do it to help out other people yeah, which it's, I think.
Speaker 1:Because we were talking about this with matt, I was like, oh, matt's gonna be our straight man. He's like like, not me. I got my own experiences and that's the only thing that can change someone's mind is they have to have a personal experience. It doesn't matter how much you show them or tell them, until they have something happen to them, they're not going to be a believer. And we talk about, well, my generation.
Speaker 1:You literally couldn't talk to anybody about this not your parents, not your sisters and your brothers, nothing. Because the stigma was so hard socially on you being a weirdo that you just couldn't talk about it. You were literally at risk of being called crazy if you legitimately believed any of this stuff was happening. But now I think it's a little more acceptable. There are TV shows all over the place now. There are government agencies investigating some of these things. However, I really do believe that some of that stigma still exists in our society, where you are looked at as a little bit of a nut job or crazy person. If you talk about it like in a serious way, it's, it's still there, it's still around we, we, actually we get in a serious way.
Speaker 3:It's, it's still there, it's still around we, we, actually we get in a lot every once in a while yeah it's interesting because we're living in this time.
Speaker 2:I would argue where? Specifically in? I'm not, I'm not even going to say american culture, I'm going to say in white culture, specifically in white culture, uh, here in the united states, where it's like no, you're the crazy one if you believe that stuff. But if you look at other cultures like Central and South America, africa, other, cultures here that are on this planet and throughout time.
Speaker 2:It's weird that we don't believe these things, that we don't believe in the supernatural, that we don't believe in the spiritual. If you go down to Mexico or you go down to Central America, it is just rife with Native American culture, dream catchers, those sorts of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, look at any culture going back to the beginning of any recorded history, that we have the Sumerians, and you're going to see tales of insane things happening to those people. Are they telling stories, are they documenting things? It was a great effort to record something. Back then we're talking about chiseling into stone. Okay, so people didn't just sit in their bed and chisel into stone at night for fun, like if it got written, it was pretty important. So either that was a very important cultural story to them or they were recording something that they saw or a tradition, tradition they had heard. You know, carried through time.
Speaker 3:Well, they say every what is it fairy? Tale folklore has. Every fairy tale of folklore has a little bit of truth in it.
Speaker 1:It's not all of it, but there's always a little bit of truth in those fairy tale stories like the big thing for me, like the more I'm able to see the bigger picture of all this stuff, and we should probably start at the beginning, not at the end. But to me, now we can look through time at all of these different cultures and the stories are so similar. They all kind of line up in such a similar way. They all kind of line up in such a similar way. It's almost impossible to discount that there's a continuous thing happening through time, because everyone's documenting it in their own way and it kind of all lines up with each other's stories. You can convict a murderer on less than that in their modern culture.
Speaker 1:So it's like we have plenty of evidence. It's just still, I think, discounted and a lot of even mainstream scientists don't want to. They're coming out more and more because they're discovering things like the big tech and some of these really old underground tunnels that have been connected in the Turkey, in the area over there, where they had underground society that we didn't know about 5,000 years ago, 8,000 years ago, and it's really hard to dispute that. So scientists are struggling to deal with the fact that science is matching up to what we've been saying for decades.
Speaker 2:Well even still and it gets a little more fun than that. But if you know so, I'm, you know it's well documented on this show that I'm a Christian. I profess a faith in Christ. If you read the Bible cover to cover, cover, then you believe in the supernatural and you believe in the spiritual like and so that's the part that has always amazed me is like, whenever you talk about, like, demon possession around christians, they like pearl clutch. They're like what do you mean? What do you mean spirits? And it's like no, look, if you want to read throughout either the old testament or the new testament, I can point you to those things. You know, know, and I even pulled up one that we're probably going to get into here in a little bit but it's like look, even Christ had to deal with demon possessed people. You know, in the Old Testament, saul actually had a witch summon a dead prophet. So it's like, if you believe the Bible cover to cover, you believe in these things.
Speaker 1:It was pretty popular in the culture. Your stories also, as you said in your book, are kind of lining up with what everyone else is saying. It's just the labels are different we're talking about demons or we're talking about angels, whereas they're talking about shadow people or some other explanation for that same phenomena, but with a different name and a different kind of like setting for it. Yeah, the facts remain the same, like people saw stuff that other people couldn't see. People heard stuff that other people couldn't hear. People observed things that shouldn't have been observable in nature and they told the story and it wound up into the Bible.
Speaker 3:We fell into a. So the first investigation that we had, where we decided to cross over both paranormal and UFO, we put two things together. So we would get reports from the clients that they'll see this eight foot tall shadow figure with a top hat on and then they'll see this little girl with a pink dress on. We're like, oh, that sounds paranormal, that's you know, something sounds weird yeah yeah, it's a weird thing eight foot guy with a tiny little girl with a pink dress, that's.
Speaker 3:And they're both shadow figures. Yeah, um, we ended up talking to a professional ufo guy. He's been on all over discovery channel with the tv shows and all that and he goes. Yeah, when we go to abductee cases, that's usually what they see is an eight-foot shadow figure guy with a top hat or a little girl with a pink dress on. That's where we decided to just switch our roles into just not paranormal and we're like oh, let's try to see if the ufo stuff works out now that's interesting.
Speaker 1:So, like I said, when I grew up, you were a ufo guy, you were a paranormal guy or you were a bigfoot guy, but it seems like in today, a lot of this is getting rolled into one big category of like strange things or high strangeness. I think you call it right Some high strangeness is happening here and in modern times. I think the best example of this is Skinwalker Ranch. People probably aren't aware that the government program that just became public is the government agency that was involved in investigating Skinwalker Ranch.
Speaker 2:Okay, give me an elevator pitch on Skinwalker Ranch. I've never heard of this before. Are you serious? Yeah, dude, I don't watch TV. I'm that type of a nerd.
Speaker 1:Skinwalker Ranch came to prominence in the 60s. There was a rancher who was reporting losing a lot of cattle to mutilations at the time, and so they actually did investigations. And it wasn't just on his ranch, which is like this huge ranch in Utah, it's at the Uinta Basin, which is like a big, it's a giant bowl in Utah and they're like in the bowl with nothing but mountains and hills around them. And so police investigated.
Speaker 1:Everybody couldn't explain what was mutilating these cows because the cow, these giant cows, would show up with no blood anywhere and they would have surgical removal of the eye or the tongue or the anus, like there would be. It wasn't like an animal nodded something and made a big mess. Something like scalpel or laser cut chunks out of these cows and drained them of blood and left them there. So either they were mutilated somewhere else and dropped off here. But I don't know who at that time would have had the resources or time to run around with these large animals, killing them and messing them up and dropping them off in remote areas where they wouldn't be found for like a couple of days.
Speaker 2:So the blood in the eye is weird, but as far as the rest of it is concerned, the hind end of a cow if you watch a coyote or a wolf, that's actually the first part that it'll eat of an animal whenever it makes a kill.
Speaker 1:So it'll start there and work its way through. You can absolutely tell the difference between an animal eating the ass of a cow and a borehole being made into a cow.
Speaker 2:that's like completely clean and circular it looks like there's a thing about it on Netflix. I might have to watch this whenever I get home.
Speaker 1:There's several things, don't worry, I'll recommend you the right things to watch.
Speaker 2:Thanks, I'm just telling you this is where it started.
Speaker 1:It started with those reports from this rancher, right, that's the only thing that was public. However, the rancher was reporting a lot of other things that weren't made public, like paranormal things were happening in his property. There's a very popular story where he was so terrified of his cattle. He was going to leave the ranch, but he was afraid to leave them. So he put all the cattle in a pen in the front of his ranch where he could see them when he pulled in and he was so uncomfortable. He came home early to check on the cattle we're talking about five male bulls, okay and when he got there they were missing, and so he searched the property and there was a little shed near where the cattle were being kept. All five cattle were crammed side by side into that shed right, and he opens the door and they're standing there motionless, almost like they're hypnotized, and within seconds they snap out of it and they start beating the crap out of the shed and beat it to hell, and they actually managed to squeeze out eventually of the shed. So this got enough attention, these kinds of stories got enough local attention that a billionaire who is interested in the paranormal bought the ranch named Bigelow Bigelow Now, if you look named Bigelow Bigelow Now, if you look up Bigelow he owned an aerospace company.
Speaker 1:This is how he got wealthy, and he had a very high level of interest in aliens specifically. So in his youth he thought I'm going to spend all my money figuring out this alien thing and I'm going to build spaceships that are going to be interstellar and I'm going to become the richest man in the universe. These are the thoughts in his head. So he buys this ranch where there's a lot of alien activity, right? This, of course, is before Elon Musk was a thing. Yes, Way before.
Speaker 1:Way before he bought the ranch with a co-effort from the US government. So it was 50% owned by Bigelow Aerospace and 50% owned by an American government entity and together they formed a government agency and I can tell you the name of that. Somebody can tell you the name of that. This company investigated Skinwalker Ranch for over 20 years.
Speaker 1:They brought in physicists, they brought in botanists, they brought in psychologists because they thought what these people did a thorough investigation. They thought maybe the plants are creating hallucinogenic properties and people are just tripping balls Like. They looked at every angle and what happened was they all went mad because they recorded paranormal activity, cryptid activity, interdimensional, apparently activity and UFO, traditional UFO activity all happening on this ranch and they can tell you they have reports of. They would buy their groceries, put them away in the pantry, turn around, get something and all their groceries are back out on the table. So you've got that kind of paranormal activity, or they'd lose something and it would show up in a tree somewhere like 50 feet in a tree, like two days later after they couldn't find it.
Speaker 3:I mean that actually makes sense. Go ahead. Imagine being late for work and you find your keys on the tree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that actually makes sense, Cause there's actually, um, I think it's here in the United States, but there's actually different places you can go to to go on a DMT trip and so dimethyltrexate, and so that's where a lot of people they think that a lot of the stories from you know the Bible came from is that whenever you get on to dimethyltrexate, you can now blur the lines between dimensions and you can see other things or other entities.
Speaker 1:I think mushrooms are probably the more like natural way that people go about doing that, because it has the exact same properties of of hallucinogenic kind of effects.
Speaker 1:It's really opening your mind to things that you wouldn't normally be open to. It's removing barriers that your mind has in place and people call that they're seeking to kill their own ego. So when you go to a therapist, you're essentially dealing with all the problems that your ego creates for you why you don't communicate right, why you get angry about things. This is all related to your ego, and so psychologists take decades to break down the barriers of your ego to get to what's really happening. Because you protect yourself. Your ego does. But you can take a drug like DMT or you can take psychedelic mushrooms and your ego melts away 100%, completely within hours, and so they're looking at using this. They actually put people in a room with a psychologist and they do sessions while they're under psychedelic drugs and they make progress that would take them 15 years to make by going to nightly meetings, you know, for an hour at a time, because they can totally break through the ego and get right to the root of what your problems are.
Speaker 2:So you heard it here first folks. Chris is going to be sponsoring a Masonic mushroom trip that we are going to gather a whole bunch of master masons together. We're going to go on a mushroom and DMT trip sponsored by Chris Burns.
Speaker 1:I will pay for the drugs. However, we have to have a responsible medical professional there to help us. That's the key. It's not for fun, it's actually for medical treatment, and so people always try to self-medicate, and I think a lot of people do it through tripping like that because they can get to the root of what really is going on in their life. And also people say that our dream states can remove our ego. So I don't know if you guys have ever had an experience of a dream speaking to you about reality. I have my first wife. I'm on my third wife, my first wife.
Speaker 1:I had this horrible dream of finding a guy's card in her purse. I knew exactly where it was in my dream. I didn't know what it was, but I knew it was scary and bad. So I woke up, ran to her purse, looked and there was a card of a guy who is a roller derby guy and apparently she had been going after work to this roller derby place and hitting on this guy and they've been meeting. And I uncovered this whole affair that was going on. Scandal, chris, scandal, because I had a weird dream that like told me I needed to look in her purse for a cart. And that is probably the first time I thought okay, this is not cool, because my dream affected real life. I shouldn't have known that, I shouldn't have known that, I shouldn't have known to look there.
Speaker 1:So I had a personal experience that didn't line up with what reality was taught to me growing up. So my mind got open to other things. I thought, well, this is possible. What else is possible?
Speaker 2:So my mind got open to other things. I thought, well, if this is possible, what else is possible? So this type of stuff actually this might come as a surprise to you, but I was actually raised around this type of stuff. So my family on my dad's side is actually from like Backwoods Georgia, backwoods Georgia, backwoods Georgia, like family tree, has some branches that shouldn't connect Backwoods Georgia, gotcha, yeah. So it's like our family tree kind of looks like a palm tree.
Speaker 2:So, having said all that, my grandmother on my dad's side I don't know what she practiced, but I would almost call it like Wiccanism, you know, somewhere, somewhere around there. So she called my dad, my mom and dad met here in in Tampa Florida, and so she calls my dad and they called him Bo and they and she said Bo, I had a dream about Denise Now Denise is my mom's name and he goes. Really, what was the dream? And he drove a, him and her drove a Datsun B210GX. They're very specific on that. They bought it for like 500 bucks and she goes, she got into a wreck in the Datsun and my older brother in this dream died in this dream and she goes and the only thing that I remember is that there was a yellow clothes basket in the back of the car that was laying next to his body and so dad got home.
Speaker 2:Whenever dad got home, after talking to her, he walks out and he goes, hey, uh, you know is, is there a clothes basket in the car? She's like, yeah, I went to the laundromat today and he walks out to the car and there's a yellow clothes basket in the back of the car. So he immediately took it out and he's in that car. Wow, so yeah, my family is like from the place of Georgia of like you go out to the middle of the woods, like no pathways to get there, you start a fire and you start playing a guitar or picking a banjo and then people just start walking out of the woods. That's my extended family in Georgia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1:This probably was based on them, sure do got a pretty mouth boy, so you have personal lifetime experience with this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes, Do you have any personal, personal experiences with this? I know why you're asking that, chris.
Speaker 1:I'm just asking because you're a believer, and everybody I know that believes in anything out of the ordinary only believes because they had a personal experience.
Speaker 2:So this is the OK. So I'm a firm believer that dreams can be interpreted. Dreams can tell the future. I mean, we have the word deja vu for a reason, so this is not something that is uncommon.
Speaker 2:Now, I had an experience, and if I get emotional during this, you're going to have to cut this out. So, for context, for people who don't know, my dad passed away from complications with cancer about 15 years ago, and so he passed away July 29th 2009, and I think it was mid August. We're freaking out, right, because my dad is the license holder of the business. He was the key pillar in our business. Everything in our family. Dad was the cornerstone. So we're all freaking out because we've only got 30 days before county and state are going to come in and shut our business down. So I have a dream, and it's. It's one of those dreams where you don't just your head hits the pillow. You wake up, you know a few minutes later and you're like, oh, I have this faint memory of something that happened. No, I experienced all six hours with my dad and it was weird because I picked up dad in my truck. This is in the dream by. Up dad in my truck.
Speaker 1:This is in the dream by the way I picked up my dad in my truck.
Speaker 2:I drove a 07 Toyota Tundra. We got in the truck at Lakeland Regional Hospital. We drove all the way down I-4. For those here in the local area, you're going to know what I'm talking about. We got off at I-4 in Branch Forbes, turned around and drove back and that trip took six hours. We talked about everything. He told me about my don't judge me. We talked about.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing I haven't told this story to people, so, like it's, it's kind of messing with me a little bit. So he told me about my younger brother. He told me about my mom. He told me about all kinds of stuff. But this is the part that freaked me out. He goes Matt, here's what I want you to do Tomorrow whenever you get back to the office. I want you to go down to the county and I want you to talk to this one specific guy. He goes. I want you to talk to this one specific guy, explain the situation to him and he's going to get this figured out. Also, I want you to go talk to this builder, this one specific guy, and I want you to talk to this executive over at this builder. And I'm like I don't even know these people's names. I've never heard these people's names before.
Speaker 2:Now, fast forward. I wake up. Oh sorry, the end of the dream. The end of the dream was as you walk into Lakeland Regional, there's the two doors at the ER department. Where you walk in, there's a receptionist, there's elevators and then there's a back hallway. I didn't know this, but the back hallway is where they take all the dead bodies to. I had no idea. I only found that out later. And so dad walks in and dad walks down that hallway, right by the elevators, just to the left of the elevators. Anybody at Lakeland Regional is going to freak out whenever I tell them this. And there's two figures that are standing on both sides of this hallway and I'm following dad into this hallway. They both stick out their arms. So, like you know, the guy on the right sticks out his right arm, guy on the left sticks out his left arm and there's a gold brace. There's a gold like brace on their arms. Weirdest thing ever like a yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's gold and like. They're hooded right so I can't see their face. All I see is a hand and a gold brace on their arm and I'm like, hey, my, my dad's going back there. I want to go. I want to go back there with my dad. Don't judge me, chris, it's too late for that. I know Right, um, and they go, you will go with him, but not yet. It's not your time. And all this happened in your six-hour dream, in my six-hour dream, I kid you not. I wake up the next day. I go down to the county, I talk to that guy, I call the guy at the builder. Everything just clicked. We got a temporary license that gave us an additional 45 days to get my license transferred over. The like was super understanding about everything and like walked me through a whole bunch of their processes. It was one of the weirdest freaking things ever. And so whenever people are like, oh, you know, I don't believe in communing with the dead, I did, and it was my dad.
Speaker 1:Well. So see, this ties into every single culture since human history was recorded. Christians will say you spoke to an angel, or your dad right. Other cultures will say that that was your guardian. Other cultures will say that's yourself. You already knew this. You manifested it in a shape, in a manner that you would trust, so that you would do the thing that needed to be done. But you knew it all the whole time because you're connected to it. I mean, I don't want to get too wacky on you, but this is very common in every culture and they all have their way of explaining it. But when you have a personal experience and I have a personal experience, and Mikey has a personal experience you can't tell me that I didn't experience what I experienced. You can say other stuff isn't real, but I know mine's not.
Speaker 2:It is real. And not only that, but if you're listening to this and you're a professing Christian, I would encourage you to go to 1 Samuel 28. Are you cool if I read this short little passage? Yeah, so this is King Saul. King Saul summons a medium of Endor, or some translations call it the witch of Endor.
Speaker 1:Isn't that where the Ewoks came from in Return of the Jedi?
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure it's a Lord of the Rings reference. But yeah, let's go with what you said. Okay, but either way, he disguises himself. King Saul disguises himself and he wants to talk to Samuel. And so, 1 Samuel 28, he's talking to the witch. In this point he says Saul vowed to her by the Lord, saying as the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing, for summoning this dead guy. Then the woman said who shall I bring up for you? And he said bring up Samuel for me, the prophet Samuel.
Speaker 2:When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice and the woman spoke to Saul, saying why have you deceived me? For you are Saul. The king said to her do not be afraid. What do you see? And the woman said to Saul I see a divine being coming out of the earth. He said to her what is it? What is his form? And she said an old man is coming up and he is wrapped with a robe. And Saul knew that it was Samuel and he bowed his face to the ground and did homage. So it's like if you're a Christian, you believe in this crap, whether you want to admit it or not.
Speaker 1:It's a little well. A lot of Christians aren't aware of a lot of things that exist in the Bible because you don't talk about them at Sunday at church, you know we talk about demon possession that Jesus cast out.
Speaker 1:So yeah, let's have these conversations. Yeah, jesus cast out. So yeah, let's have these conversations. Yeah, yeah, and I think I think pretty like I talk about a lot. My wife's family is very religious and everything to them is a demon or an angel. So if we talk about aliens, they're demons. Unless they help somebody, then it's an angel. So they kind of categorize it into their vernacular that they can understand.
Speaker 2:So they kind of categorize it into their vernacular that they can understand. Yes and no. I mean because you can have demons that are helpful, because they want you to be neutral. They don't want you to pursue the things that are of God, so they want to make you comfortable, and so, to our human eyes, that's them being helpful. No, they want you comfortable, so that way you're not working for the kingdom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know it's a sad thing, but for humans, like some of our greatest things come out of tragedy and negative things. I mean you never I never met an interesting person that didn't have hard times in their background. And anybody that I met that was extremely wealthy and grew up that way is totally messed up in the head and not generally going to be a good person. You have to go through crap. It kind of is what makes you into a better person. Coming out of that, the other side and having a little more respect for other people and things I think is part of the process. Pain is part of the process of becoming a better person. But I want to talk to Mikey about what he's doing today. But now that I know that you don't know the background of this, I just want to briefly give you the cliff notes of how we got to where we're at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please, okay, everyone's heard of Roswell, right? Yeah, okay, roswell is what started the public's knowledge about all this stuff going on, and the government actually had a project called Project Sign in 1948, which you probably never heard of. It was established by the Air Technical Service Command and they were investigating at Wright-Patterson Field Air Force in Ohio claims of things that were strange in the sky. That project led into a government project called Project Grudge, which formally ended in 1949 and directly followed Project Sign and was an even bigger look into the whole UFO. What's going on? Because people are seeing things phenomenon by the Air Force. That led into Project Blue Book. Now I'm sure you've heard of Project Blue Book at least, right.
Speaker 2:I have not. The only blue project I'm familiar with is Blue Beam, but that hasn't happened yet. Blue Beam, blue Beam. We'll get into it after this, okay.
Speaker 1:Project Blue Book's a pretty well-known government project because it was so public. They took thousands of UFO reports from the general public and they put a committee of people together to investigate it on behalf of the US Air Force. And so they assigned one scientist to the group who was not a member of the military, named Hynek, and Hynek was the resident genius. So he had to go around, listen to everybody's stories, and he was approaching this from a scientific perspective in the beginning, and so he was able to explain away most of what people would bring forward. But out of the thousands of reports there was a few hundred that he couldn't explain. So when he would have internal reports with the US government, they would tell him make it go away. And he'd be like I'm doing science. And they'd be like no, you're working for the government. And so he was forced to give crazy reports. So there were the most popular one that everyone knows about Multiple people saw an object, an orb-type object, in the sky at night and it was moving erratically, which is a common report these days, but in those days it wasn't. So they sent Hynek and the team out. He interviewed everybody, he found all the witnesses to be totally credible and he reported to the government we really don't know what this is, we need to put more resources on this. And they gave him the answer. So he had to go on public TV and report that it was swamp gas. And he had to report that swamp gas can cause the air to spontaneously combust and it can look like a ball and it can move around. And they had this scientist out there. Now he's just a show pony for the government.
Speaker 1:And so he started to get pretty uncomfortable with the whole thing after a few years because he kind of switched his thinking. He's like there's really something going on here. He talked to so many people that were totally credible and things he saw that he couldn't explain, like magnetic readings at the site or radioactive isotopes at a site where people said they saw something. He would record this stuff, see that there was bad. There was legitimate physical evidence to back up the stories these people are saying. And then he'd have to publicly come up with a crazy explanation that would make it go away. And we listened to it. I heard this stuff on the news at the time and I I remember thinking it's all a bunch of crap, like all these people are hoaxers and they're all trying to get their five minutes of fame. And it did go away.
Speaker 1:So the government actually released a report to the public called the Condon Report, and that report is given by a US military person who basically says there's nothing here. We're shutting the program down. There's nothing worth looking at, there's nothing of US interest, defense interest or anything here. All of this stuff is a bunch of hokey pokey. So they basically canceled that project and this is the end of the government's involvement in anything paranormal. Officially, no one ever hears about it again. It becomes a culture of you're crazy or you're a nut job. This is proven to be false. Anybody that thinks it is crazy and it dies. Until Skinwalker Ranch happens, the UF government forms the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office in conjunction with Bigelow, and they buy a piece of land and investigate it for over 20 years Now. All the documentation the government did is on video. It's in multiple videos. They have audio of it. They have all this information and so does Bigelow. But Bigelow worked for the government, with the government. He cannot release anything he knows as long as he's alive. It's all got to stay completely private.
Speaker 1:Bigelow sold the property because his wife died and he blamed Skinwalker Ranch for his wife's death. There's an effect called the hitchhiker effect. So if you're around these strange things happening and you go home, strange things happen to you in your home. They call it the hitchhiker effect. And he was experiencing shadow figures. He was experiencing time loss. He was experiencing strange lights that would follow periods of fear when they were sleeping at night a feeling of being watched. Sleeping at night, a feeling of being watched. And his wife actually died of a heart attack. And he attributes that to all of the stuff that they brought home with them from his investigations at Skinwalker Ranch.
Speaker 1:It wasn't just him. There were other scientists and government officials that were scared for their families because of what was happening to them in their homes, so they literally sold this property and stopped the investigation. And the other thing was they could never get solid proof Anything that happened. They could never get it to happen again in the same way it happened the first time. It would always be something different the next time and it was driving them crazy. So they might see a UFO in the sky and a glowing orb shedding lights, and the next night there'd be shadow men or a lizard guy or some giant animal making tracks and it was, like always, something totally different, totally unrelated, seemingly from a completely different kind of like you know discipline of science that it would take to even study it.
Speaker 1:So he sold the ranch to a private real estate mogul in Utah who then made the one condition when he sold it was you have to continue research on the property. So he can't turn it into a vacation destination, he can't make it like a tourist attraction. So he made it into a TV show on Netflix. He hired a team of scientists. He hired one guy who had been known to work with the government in various projects and he started investigating skinwalker ranch publicly. And they release all their findings.
Speaker 1:A lot of it, the best parts they put into the show, obviously, but the rest of it they're working with universities and you know they I mean they've uncovered stuff and sent it to be studied and they get the results from labs, and so a lot of this is well documented. And so they find out that the guy they hired was actually working for a new government agency unbeknownst to them. So the same organization that had owned Skinwalker Ranch hired a guy named Travis, who is a physicist, to get on that team. He was their guy at the new government agency, but they were not contracted with this real estate guy, so they embedded one of their guys in his show and it wasn't until the second or third season he stepped down from the job and it was now public that he was the director over there and they were taken aback like you're what? We were letting you in on all of our stuff and you were a government agent the whole time investigating this stuff. This is literally happening, well documented see, and and even still.
Speaker 2:And, mikey, I'd love to get your take on this, but as a religious man, I mean, I I attribute that to spiritual, especially whenever you talk about the hitchhiker effect. You know spirits can attach to objects, you know, and that's you know through the Catholic Church, that's been well documented. You know, with some of their exorcisms which a lot of them are garbage. But you know they actually have a division that is specifically for exorcism and stuff like that. But, mikey, what's your take on that? I attribute it to spirits. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:We are going to break here. End the episode Come next week. Listen to Mikey answer this and a whole lot more in part two.
