Speaker 1: 0:10

you've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join on the level podcast as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the mysteries, dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of freemasonry to unlock the greatness within each of us. I have you now, and then I told them we were going to do this. I wanted to do some rapid fire questions followed by a 10 word association game. If you're down, if you're okay with it, all right, he's good, we'll try. Okay, what is your biggest failure in Freemasonry?

Speaker 3: 0:59

In Freemasonry, the fact that there are still some brothers that apparently we can't get along, and I don't like that because I tried. You know I don't have to agree with anybody as long as we can agree to disagree, but if you're not even willing to shake my hand and disagree, that's the problem. I don't think it's Masonic, and so the fact that I can't get past those and there's not a lot of them, but there's a couple it sticks with you.

Speaker 1: 1:39

That's something that's in your mind.

Speaker 3: 1:41

I don't think it's Masonic. Yeah, and I don't feel it's Masonic and I don't feel comfortable being at odds. You know we just you and I don't have to agree on every subject, to be friends or to at least be cordial to each other and be brothers. I think that was the whole Masonic concept.

Speaker 1: 1:59

I'm pretty sure yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:02

Abraham over there. He's a good guy. I know he's not a Christian, but he's got skills. Why can't we have an organization? We both believe in the same God. We could just ignore that part and utilize the rest of our abilities. I think that was the concept.

Speaker 1: 2:19

I mean, you're building a much stronger society if you can operate that way. Right, I agree with you. That's. One of my biggest pet peeves is masons that have no concept of what masonry is. There's too many masons that don't understand that masonry is about setting aside our differences and working together. At its core. That's it, bottom line, at its basis. That's what masonry is, and if you can't get past that, wow, how are you going to go any further?

Speaker 2: 2:49

Yeah, well, I've always thought the most unique verbiage I've ever heard is best work and best degree.

Speaker 1: 2:55

Mm. Hmm, exactly, yeah, that's right. With so many appended bodies, committees, district opportunities, what advice would you give a newly made master mason like Matt Stone that is looking to get?

Speaker 3: 3:12

more involved in Freemasonry. Okay, so now you get to hear about my amoeba theory. You know amoebas, they Single-celled organisms yeah but they multiply by dividing.

Speaker 3: 3:23

So as soon as four amoebas get together, two of them are going to go start another masonic group, right. And then when they become four, two of those are going to go start another. And and people look at my wallet and go, man, you got a lot of credit cards. No, those are dues cards, man, those, those are dues cards. You'll hear some guys go, look, man, just concentrate on masonry, don't worry about the other stuff. And others will go man, you need to become a Shriner, you need to become Scottish Rite, you become York Rite or Scottish Rite or the Shrine is.

Speaker 3: 4:08

There's not as much heavy lifting to join and you don't have to jump in with both feet in the beginning. There's nothing wrong with getting exposed. I mean, I was raised in 88. I went through the Scottish Rite in 88. I joined the Shrine in 88. Scottish Rite in 88. I joined the Shrine in 88. And there's been with the exception of Scottish Rite probably there's been years where I didn't go into either one of those buildings. But eventually I came back and so you can join them. But enjoy your Masonic experience and get what you can out of that and then do the other things when you feel like it's your time.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Wow, great advice. I love it. Okay, what people had the biggest impact on your Masonic career and why?

Speaker 3: 5:03

Well, I'll start with my dad, because he's the one that told me to show up at that building you wouldn't even have been a Mason if he didn't make you do it.

Speaker 3: 5:13

Well, I probably would have wound up there eventually anyway. Okay, I mean, he was a Mason and all of those other guys who I've known pretty well for years and years and years, so I probably would have wound up there anyway. So him, jerry Goetjer Wright, worshipful Jerry Goetjer taught me more about ritual and than anybody he was was a great teacher. I learned a lot from him. He's a good ritualist and I owe him an awful lot and I appreciate it. Guys like Rusty Glendening, ed Jordan's a past master of Sarasota Lodge. I picked his brain an awful lot. Sarasota has had some really good masters over the years. And then I joined Venice Rocky Kearney. Where's Rocky Kearney? Kearney, kearney, k-e-a-r-n-e-y.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Don't they call him Kearney? Isn't that his name?

Speaker 3: 6:23

No, no, they call him Rocky. You're thinking of Les, ah you're right.

Speaker 1: 6:29

Yes, yes, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: 6:33

But Rocky put me in line at Venice in 2008 as senior deacon and that started where I am now. So Bill Burris was a great instructor. He helped me with learning some of my lectures and did a great job.

Speaker 3: 6:56

He would have been your secretary also, right when you were master he was secretary of our lodge for a long time, yeah, and was zone six chair committee on work for a while. So I think when I got my first or second blue orange card for the lectures and I know I'm leaving some guys out, but uh, that's okay, it's who comes to your mind.

Speaker 1: 7:23

So I wasn't raised at Sarasota Lodge, I was raised in a lodge near there and I heard the name Jerry Gocher. Enough to know, when I got to Sarasota Lodge, fear this man. And when I met him, what I learned is there's there's a little bit of truth in everything. What I learned is there's a little bit of truth in everything. Jerry Goetjer is a man to be feared because Jerry Wright, worshipful Goetjer, was a district instructor for more than one year I think three years or something, yeah, and so he knows the work. He also doesn't know how to tell you this properly. So he's right 100% of the time, but the way he tells you makes you not want to listen. 100% of the time. He has a bit of an attitude, and so I see why he has the reputation outside the lodge that he has. But what they're failing to see is he's right. Almost always he's right.

Speaker 3: 8:23

He was a band director. I think he acted just like a band director and were you in the band? No band directors have a lot on their hands. Man right, they got 25, 50 people out there with different instruments and you're trying to get them to do all this every. They'll all come together and work on one thing at the same time. And you're trying to get them to do all this and they'll all come together and work on one thing at the same time and you're not doing that with kumbaya songs.

Speaker 3: 8:50

You're doing it by cracking the whip well, right, you got to kind of snap your fingers and get things going. When you get to a volunteer organization, that seems a little pushy. Yeah, it did bother me for a couple of reasons. One is I had been a mason a long time and unfortunately new masons come into masonry thinking all I got to do is make one little mistake and then they're going to kick me out forever. It's going to have to be a really, really really big mistake for that to happen. Yeah, but you know, different people have different demeanors.

Speaker 1: 9:38

No, I'm with you because face-to-face I actually wanted all of his criticism and critiques and he did it properly in my mind. He took me aside after meetings and would say, hey, you might want to turn this way and maybe hold the staff this way better. And I was soaking that in. I loved it, because most people don't do that. They just pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you're doing and you're like well, thanks, that doesn't help me get better, but thanks, I appreciate it, whereas Jerry, that doesn't help me get better, but thanks, I appreciate it, whereas Jerry, he actually is trying to help you get better.

Speaker 3: 10:07

When I was master he was my lodge instructor and after the second degree that we did, I took him to lunch and I'm going, jerry, I know you mean well man, but on degree night I don't care how bad my guys screw up, I want you to go shake their hand, pat them on the back and tell them they did a great job At the next practice, rip them a new one. But they worked their ass off and they didn't screw up on purpose.

Speaker 1: 10:40

Yeah, let them go home and sleep good.

Speaker 3: 10:42

Right, exactly, and then we can get to it the next time. And he knew and I'm going. I thought you'd understand because you're a band director and he goes. The problem is, when I was a band director, I was in, I was part of the band, I'm leading the band.

Speaker 1: 11:00

Ah, yes.

Speaker 3: 11:02

So now I'm sitting over there on the sidelines sitting on my hands. That's tough with with nothing to do right and I'm going.

Speaker 1: 11:10

I gotta understand all that knowledge and experience in your head and you see these young people out there and you're like no, come on, I know. No, I get you know I had an experience like that recently.

Speaker 2: 11:20

It was just one of those nights. It was our uh state of communication and it was just one of those nights where it's like, man, everybody screwed up, screwed up, Everybody did something wrong. You know it was. It was rough. And so finally we had a brother I believe it was David Wenzel visiting from Brandon, who is a phenomenal guy. I've worked degrees with him before. He's awesome. He looks at me, he goes and I'm junior deacon and he goes. Hey, are you going to be sitting over there next year? I said I don't know, sir, We'll see where things go when you carry the flag, and just went off about how our guy had done the flag wrong at the flag ceremony and he's like it's a hand on the hilt at 90 degrees, upright, free and aloft, and I was like, yes, sir, Thank you, I appreciate it everyone has their pet bees.

Speaker 3: 12:05

Everyone does, but I think we voted on that a couple years ago at grand lodge that you there's more than one way yeah oh, really, yes. Uh, because for years the book said 20 degree angle and then and I think it was basically veterans were going well, well, that's improper. But I don't think they ever said it has to be at 90 degrees or 20 degrees. I think it just said the lodge can decide. Is that right? Do you remember?

Speaker 1: 12:37

Well, the current combined floor workbook says 45 degree angle and it says to hold the flag at ease, I believe, as the prayers are given, but it doesn't. What does that mean at ease isn't really spelled out, so I think they left that open to interpretation. As to what at ease is with the flag, you're right, it doesn't really specify. It could be straight up and down, it could be 20 degrees, it could be 45 degrees.

Speaker 3: 13:07

Well, for years that 45 degrees was it.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:11

And every meeting we had a past district deputy who's also a Marine and he would give that poor guy, the, the senior deacon, crap every time. And I'm a master going. This is what the book says. All right, so you carry it at 45. One of the reasons this is in a lot of lodges. If you don't get it that low, it's going to hit a fan.

Speaker 1: 13:39

Yeah, I've seen it.

Speaker 3: 13:41

So you've got to be able to bend a little bit, but again jumping on a guy.

Speaker 1: 13:49

Yeah, that's not Masonic, right, it's not.

Speaker 3: 13:51

Yeah, if I'm going to do it and I don't do it on degree nights at all, but on just a meeting night and I know a guy's relatively new I'll come up afterwards and go look, I'm not criticizing and if you want I'll just shut up. But if you did this it would be correct, right, but I don't want anybody to feel like they didn't try, because I've seen guys that come in and obviously didn't try.

Speaker 1: 14:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:28

But most of our guys are trying but they have other lives and they got jobs and bosses that they might not like and there's kids and wives and stuff at home and you got.

Speaker 1: 14:40

You know you can't be perfect every time and I can tell you, as somebody that knows this stuff, the pressure and the fear gets to you. Even if you do know the stuff and you tried really hard, you still might freak out and make mistakes. So you're going to make mistakes. There's no way around it. Everybody makes mistakes, even the best of us.

Speaker 2: 15:00

It's the best way to learn making mistakes you know, I really appreciate the fact that we've got a boomer, a Gen Xer and a millennial masons all sitting down in one room, essentially Because I guess I'm still full of piss and vinegar, like I get ticked whenever I see some of that stuff go off and I'm not perfect at all at my role. But I think it was that same lodge night I had to drive the senior warden home. He didn't have a ride and so he looks over at me and he was riding in my truck and he goes. You know, matt, I think we did a really good job tonight. You know, what do you think?

Speaker 1: 15:34

no, we did not really good really good. You thought that was good, that that is a problem. Though if you can't recognize the issues, then that is a problem. Because when I have you can't recognize the issues, then that is a problem. Because when I have a bad night and Barry comes up to me, my first words are going to be I missed this line, that line, I screwed that up Like I know what wasn't good. And if you can't even tell that it wasn't good, that's a problem.

Speaker 3: 16:00

Yeah yeah, they were either taught wrong or they just learned to accept to have a low expectation of what they're trying to do. So if you weren't taught wrong, you're not going to know any better anyway. Or if you're in a lodge that's always undermanned understudy and they've just learned to accept a mediocre presentation, then that's what they're going to say. Yeah, so with that, as you come in, try to get some new guys in, get the you know, show them how it should be done.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Again, it falls on you to change things. Sorry, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:42

Still the 20% rule. Sorry for that.

Speaker 1: 16:44

Come on, gen Xer, you got all the piss and vinegar.

Speaker 3: 16:46

You can do it when I got to Venice Lodge and I'm not being critical of Venice at all, but the very first time I sat in that senior deacon chair, they, I didn't realize this is when the worshipful master, you know. They, I didn't realize this is when the worshipful master, you know, asks if everybody's a master mason. They always challenged it 100% of the time, which is clearly optional in the ritual. And it took me two and a half years to change that, because you can't change it as the senior deacon. That's right. You just got to work on the worship of a master and go optional, optional, it says optional, it says optional. And I finally got there and in the meantime I embarrassed the crap out of myself because I had no idea what I was doing. Which means, if you're listening to this and you're studying ritual, when you get to the optional part I'm not talking about in the, in the lectures, but in the uh, the rest of the work you should be familiar with it. Yeah, even though it says optional, be familiar with it. I mean.

Speaker 1: 18:02

I mean we dealt with that at Sarasota Lodge. I mean when I first got there I saw them. The chaplain thought he had to go to the altar to pray, thought it was part of the ritual, and it was perpetuated year after year after year. He was taught that, yes, yes, he was taught that. And it's not obviously Not necessarily and it did eventually, but it took would stop that. And it's not obviously not necessarily and it did eventually, but it took years for that to get fixed.

Speaker 3: 18:31

Yeah, but it can be done.

Speaker 2: 18:33

So so that same senior warden that I referenced earlier. I think it was one of our first meetings. We had people visiting, we had a lot of visitors and everything you know. Of course there's a question is everybody present? Master Mason's? And I see him stand up and he gets a look on his face and because he'd been wanting to do it and and we hadn't practiced it at all, so like we didn't know how to do it, and so he gets this kind of smile on his face, starts to look around and the junior warden goes don don't you dare.

Speaker 3: 19:00

I love it, I think avery's eyes should do it once a year.

Speaker 1: 19:06

Yes, just to prove you can do it At the least attended meeting of the year. Sure, I agree. So what would you say is your greatest success in Freemasonry?

Speaker 3: 19:18

Success, success. When I was district deputy, we got two people into the Masonic home and that was great. You know, being able to help people get into a situation where they're going to be taken care of was a lot of work a fair amount of work involved in that, but it was nice to be able to get that done and know that those people are being taken care of. So there's that. Raising both of my sons was pretty darn cool. Oh, you got to raise both of them.

Speaker 3: 20:01

I raised both, one as worshipful master and I was worshipful master in Venice when Cary was raised, my youngest son. It literally brought him to the East for his catechism and did the questions myself.

Speaker 1: 20:20

Wow, that is special yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:25

That is special, yeah so. But other than that, I mean I don't know. I look at Mace Read definitely has had a large impact on my life, but and I think about it every day, but I've been doing it for so long, I think that a lot of that's just internalized. I do think it's had a big effect on my attitudes towards life and other people. That I don't know how to verbalize, but I try to live it every day.

Speaker 1: 21:04

I think that's what makes you special, because not all masons do. And that leads to my next question what motivates you to keep showing up for Freemasonry after all these years?

Speaker 3: 21:18

I like the brothers and I like the ritual. And I think you know I get the same reaction from people when I tell them I go deer hunting and I keep a diary. I've been keeping the diary for 30 years, so I know exactly how long. Well, I could know exactly how many hours I've spent in a deer stand. Where was I going with that? Don't worry, I can edit this. No, no, but people go. Man, I cannot believe you can just sit in a stand for five hours. What do you do? And I go.

Speaker 3: 21:58

Well, I think I get to watch nature. I've got you know it's fun to me. It might not be fun to you, but I don't mind being by myself with my thoughts, which translates into I like ritual. I think some guys don't like the ritual. They think it's boring and they don't. So I like the ritual in itself and then I like to see how people are working with it. So this is what brings me to life getting to see the brothers, seeing what's going on in the district and in Freemasonry and seeing how the new guys are adapting to it, and that's entertaining to me.

Speaker 1: 22:44

To me, I have to say, say like I've become a beekeeper since I live in south carolina and I I you're kind of like the beekeeper. Right, there's all these bees and they're doing their thing and it's working the way it's supposed to work. But none of it would work without an overseer, kind of checking in once in a while, just making sure everything's proper. Do you need a little food? You're good and let them do their thing. You're kind of like a Masonic beekeeper and all the bees are out there doing their business. It's a beautiful system when you look at it that way.

Speaker 3: 23:15

It is.

Speaker 1: 23:17

I don't think I'm the keeper, though those are my words, not yours, okay, last question what do you think are the biggest challenges that Freemasonry faces today?

Speaker 3: 23:33

Uh, they're the same ones we've had all along, which is, everybody worries about membership, but I think that the lodges, like Sarasota, are actually showing that that might not be the end of the world. Right, we're getting new members, so we got to keep that going. We're going to have to get through this next couple of years. I think our country is going through some stuff, man, and it may have an impact on the fraternity at some point, and I hope that it doesn't, and I also hope that our fraternity does what we've all obligated ourselves to do, which is, no matter what's going on politically in this country, that we remain committed to each other, regardless of which side of the political spectrum that you're on. I don't know if that'll happen, but, yeah, at the end of the day, we got to have membership and not change our values, and I don't.

Speaker 3: 24:57

The beauty of Freemasonry is I don't think that we can. I'm seeing in some appendant bodies that some of those guys are getting desperate enough for members that they're willing to change their core values, and I don't think that that's going to work. I just don't think it's going to work. If we're going to survive, we kind of need to keep doing what we're doing? Yeah, just do more of it. My dad said what this country needs is a good depression. Right, we kind of need to keep doing what we're doing. Yeah, just do more of it, my dad said what this country needs is a good depression, right?

Speaker 3: 25:30

People need to learn to count on each other again. That's true, which was happening in the 1930s, when he was born, and I'm not sure that I don't want our country to go into a depression. But look, we can sit here on a computer. Never leave the house. You got 550 channels on TV. You got a computer. That'll get you into more trouble than you need to be in. You don't need to leave the house. You don't need friends. I think people need them, but I do think that there's a fair amount of people that are living in their own world and not living in the world.

Speaker 1: 26:03

Yeah, and if the internet went away tomorrow, that would change, change everything. We'd all be in trouble, some of us more than others. I mean, I definitely want to come to you when I need to eat. You're going to have all the deer meat in the world.

Speaker 2: 26:19

I'm going to be over here eating my turnips I think that I think the funniest part is, if we were to lose internet tomorrow, just how many people would be lost because they've never even seen a map book yeah right, I know they couldn't navigate they, oh man, it'd be horrible. We'd be mass extinction of people yeah, I'd be like all right, you need to go north. Is that up or down?

Speaker 1: 26:42

it's me the burger king right, and I gotta go to burger king, is what you're saying. And then keep going yep, go to burger king.

Speaker 3: 26:47

Turn left I miss maps, you know, uh, when I'm traveling, like on my motorcycle, sometimes you just can't beat a map with With phones or iPads or any GPS, you get too big and you can't see what I want to see, which is the small stuff, the little roads, you know, which you're going to find on a map. So I rode to Laconia in Maine last year on my bike and I took maps, I used my phone and my GPS, but there were times when you break out that map because you want to see everything at once you have driven all over this country on your motorcycle Practically.

Speaker 3: 27:32

I'm short. Four states Michigan, wisconsin, minnesota and Alaska, and I'm hoping to get those done this summer. I got a nephew in Anchorage so he says we can ride in August. So I'm going to fly up there and rent one, which is what I did in Hawaii, and then I'm going to ride up or maybe trailer. You know, last year at Grand Lodge my wife got me a puppy that I didn't ask for that. I love Link, yeah, link, but he makes motorcycling a little difficult. You know, I can't just put him on the back.

Speaker 3: 28:14

I'm working on it but, I, just don't know if it's going to work.

Speaker 2: 28:18

You know I'm actually part of Zendigrado here in Plant City. Our guys I think it's in August actually but our guys are actually doing a charity ride from Zendigrado here in Plant City, florida, all the way up to Anchorage, alaska, and back. So they're actually going to be doing a long fundraising. They're going to stop at the different grottos along the route to raise funds for Humanitarian Foundation and Miles for Special Smiles.

Speaker 3: 28:45

How long is that going to take?

Speaker 2: 28:48

I'd have to call Travis or George and ask them. I think they're going to be gone for quite some time.

Speaker 3: 28:52

this is way off the subject, but about 10, probably 10 years ago there was an Indian tribe in Florida that put up a million dollar prize and these guys had to ride a motorcycle from Key West to Alaska, to the farthest point north. Winner got a million dollars and every day they left from one spot and were given the next destination. It wasn't like they had it all planned out ahead of time, because otherwise these guys would have mechanic trucks set up, so every day they found out where they had to check in the next day. I think the winter made it in five days. Wow, five days from Key West to that's crazy stuff.

Speaker 1: 29:44

That must have been painful.

Speaker 3: 29:48

Three or four guys died. I mean that's just, there's no sleep involved to be able to do that, or very little sleep involved to be able to get those two points in that little bit of time.

Speaker 1: 30:01

Yeah, that's not an enjoyable trip, not in that time frame. Million dollars, yeah, I guess. For a million dollars, I mean I'm okay with not being a millionaire personally.

Speaker 3: 30:16

I think it would have been exciting. The guy that owns Precision Cycle here in Sarasota, ron him and his brother wrote it I think they were fifth and sixth and he said he crashed, slept for like 24 hours and then called an Uber or taxi driver and said we're going to hit every bar in this town, which was probably only five, right, because it's the middle of nowhere, alaska, but pretty funny. Okay, so I belong to some more grottos. Find out how long that's going to take, maybe.

Speaker 2: 30:54

I'll jump in. Oh yes, sir, I just text one of the guys. If you text back while we're streaming, I'll tell you. All right, cool.

Speaker 1: 31:00

That would be fun. So we're now an hour and 46. This is going to be. I'm going to split this into two separate episodes. We're going to do the general conversation in this Masonic question and answer. Probably is another episode, but I do. I've never done this before and I've seen it done and I love the idea of it. Word association You're familiar, okay, yeah, and so I have 10 words and I'm really excited to say them, and then you, just as quick as you can, let me know the first thing that pops into your head and maybe we'll talk about it, maybe we won't. You ready?

Speaker 3: 31:39

I'm not sure. Let's see Number one.

Speaker 1: 31:42

Gringo. Gringo Friend All right, all right, because you're trying to learn Spanish. You've been trying for like years now, so that's one of the first ones us white boys learn. When you're trying to learn Spanish because you want to know who's talking about you.

Speaker 3: 32:00

Yeah, friend.

Speaker 1: 32:00

That's talking about you. Yeah, friend, that's interesting. Two Feather.

Speaker 3: 32:09

Turkey. I'm into turkey right now, okay.

Speaker 1: 32:14

Number three Trust.

Speaker 3: 32:21

My wife trust. Uh, my wife. Okay, word association, so I'm just going with it. Number four love again my wife love it family I think, yeah, number five aliens.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Uh it family, yeah, number five aliens uh wow, wow, okay, wow is a word we'll take that. Yeah, we're gonna have to get with now. We said we could talk about them. Where are you at with what's going on in the world, with disclosure, the changing of UFO to UAP, the idea that the government does have a program, and they lied and said they didn't Like, where do you fall on all that stuff? Because you're one of the smartest people I know and I'm really curious where you stand on this. And if you don't want to talk about it, I get it. You don't have to.

Speaker 3: 33:23

I was just reading something about this recently, about why we haven't found alien life, and one of the first reasons is because it's hard, they're a long way away and they don't have the technology, just like we don't, right, I mean, we sent a record out in a spaceship.

Speaker 1: 33:51

Sure, if you've got a record player, you'll be able to.

Speaker 3: 33:53

I know, yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 1: 33:57

It's meaningless what we're sending out Meaningless.

Speaker 3: 34:01

I guess it just shows that there's some kind of advanced form or what we think is advanced.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:09

And if they found it in their advanced that they would figure out the technology to be able to read it. The down and dirty answer is if it's an unlimited amount of time and space, then we can't be the only sentient beings right.

Speaker 3: 34:25

Highly improbable. Yes. Then the question becomes well, how the hell are they going to get there? So how are they getting here? And if they are here, why haven't they shown themselves? Are here, why haven't they shown themselves? So I got big questions about whether we've actually contacted anybody. And you know, going back to the archaeology thing, one of the first things, my first archaeology class, our teacher had us buy this paperback book and the premise was that humans were put here on earth by alien life.

Speaker 3: 35:05

And I'm going. Why the hell are we reading this book in an archeology class? And the reason was she was teaching us about how science works. Because what that book did is it looked at all kinds of evidence and picked anything that fit their theory and ignored the rest. So they just cherry picked. This is the same thing that creationists do. Creationists believe that the world is only as old as what the Bible explains so it'd be 5,500, 6,000 years old and that fossils were created by the devil to make us believe, not believe, the Bible.

Speaker 1: 35:50

I haven't heard that one. That's fascinating. Oh, we need to have a conversation sir. Are you? A creationist that believes the world's only 6,000 years old.

Speaker 2: 36:01

No, but I was raised and educated by them. Okay, I was able to logically deduce that they're full of crap. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:07

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:10

I mean, there's ways that you know, you can still believe in Genesis, because God didn't create light until what, the sixth day, we measure time by revolutions of our Earth around the sun, which is getting shorter and shorter over time. But if there's no sun, how are we measuring our time? I think there's probably alien life and I doubt seriously that we found it.

Speaker 1: 36:44

That's my theory okay I could be wrong. Well, um I. There's a lot going on like fast. Information is coming fast these days, because when I in the 80s you would hear stories of like area 51 and groom lake and all these things right and it, and it was just you were crazy if you listened to the radio stations that talked about it. And now it's mainstream. It's like generally known that these things are out there, so obviously we don't know. But I think that's the beauty of it. Anyone that says they know anything for sure is full of shit, because nobody knows anything for sure, nobody. You can choose to believe things, but that doesn't mean you know it to be true in reality and what you choose to believe is your choice and that's for you.

Speaker 3: 37:34

And I haven't seen anything concrete enough to make me I mean again, it's probable that there's alien life.

Speaker 1: 37:44

Well, I don't know if you saw it. They just did a little analysis of like a tiny little .001 milligram of our brain tissue and have you seen what they found in there? No Billions of synapses, and the visualization looks like a universe, an entire universe, inside a tiny, tiny piece of our own brains. It's mind-numbing the fact that we know almost nothing about the world we live in. So I'm fascinated by what people believe about this stuff world we live in. So I'm fascinated by what people believe about this stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:23

So, since, since we're on the topic, uh, chris and I'll send you some articles on it, but the the favorite thing, my favorite thing about the aliens has come out recently is, uh, they don't believe that the aliens are coming to us, but that they've always been here and they're just hidden. You know so nasa started out as an underwater exploration and then they found something and said we need to get the heck off the planet. Yeah, um, you know so those sorts of things, or, especially if you go in the christian realm, you know there's a, there's a whole group of christian conspiracy theorists that are like no, these, you know this was described in books of the bible uh, multiple books of the bible that that there were flying wheels of fire that were set up in the sky, and so the thought is that the aliens are known as the greys, which are actually demons.

Speaker 1: 39:10

See, I saw on a documentary a Christian family and the father's teaching his children that it's all part of the Bible. Teaching his children that it's all part of the Bible. All those stories are alien ideas, Angels from heaven. You know they're alien entities. So he's literally teaching his children scripture, but from the perspective that it's all alien, it's crazy. It's crazy what's happening.

Speaker 3: 39:37

Doesn't all of that negate the Adam and Eve story?

Speaker 1: 39:40

Well, no, not necessarily, because they believe that the aliens are. It's like a zoo, basically, right. So they populated the planet with people, um, for whatever purposes. Uh, you know slave labor, or whatever you want to call it. Um, so I've heard lately there's this theory that they're vessels for souls and that's what they consume are the souls of people, and so we're all just containers carrying around their food, which is our soul. You haven't heard that one?

Speaker 2: 40:09

No, oh man, there's so many fascinating crazy theories out.

Speaker 1: 40:12

And then the Pope just made an announcement like two days ago, I think, he came out and gave new guidance on spirituality and, uh, spiritualism and UFOs and all this stuff. He actually made comments about it and they're starting to class.

Speaker 2: 40:26

I heard he came out with an announcement, but I haven't read it yet.

Speaker 1: 40:29

Yeah, it's basically the Catholic church trying to classify, like how to deal with reports of abduction, or like seeing orbs, like is it a spiritual thing that the priest should be involved in or is it basically something that is against the faith that they need to counsel them on how to deal with the idea of the experience they had. So it's giving some guidance as to how the church should deal with this stuff.

Speaker 2: 40:56

I just want to be clear. This is the same organization that's been forcibly casting out demons for like hundreds of years. Right, you mean exorcisms? Yeah, yeah, that's the same one.

Speaker 3: 41:10

Seems reasonable.

Speaker 1: 41:11

Okay, we went way off topic. We're only five in Number. Six you ready to get back in the zone?

Speaker 3: 41:19

Yeah, okay, I don't think I was ever in the zone here number six honor uh, man, you want one word, I know it's hard yeah, it is very hard, you surely get a vision in your mind of something. Honestly, I think the vision was Arlington.

Speaker 1: 41:50

Cemetery.

Speaker 3: 41:51

That was the vision, that was what popped into my head, dead soldiers who fought for their country, yeah, honor. Well, they honored our country, paid their ultimate sacrifice.

Speaker 1: 42:05

Yeah, number seven, faith.

Speaker 3: 42:13

Faith, something everybody should have. You need to have faith in something. I don't know what that is, I think it's different for everybody, but yes, and I think a lot of people come into Masonry trying to figure out what that's about. Right, they come, they may. I mean, none of us are atheists, so we all have some kind of a religious background, I guess. But I think we all need to at some point become comfortable in our own skin and what we believe, and it doesn't have to match what everybody else believes.

Speaker 1: 42:57

Right.

Speaker 3: 42:59

And I think that's one of the reasons we don't discuss religion. That's right. In Lodge is well. If we just keep that subject out of here and get around, get along on the rest of it, we ought to be able to do great things. But you need to figure out what you believe. That's what I think.

Speaker 1: 43:20

It took me a while Figure out what you believe and why you believe it. Fred used to say that all the time.

Speaker 3: 43:25

It's honestly how I wound up in anthropology. Is I took religious courses trying to figure out? Is I took religious courses trying to figure out? Because you know, I was raised in a First Baptist church. I was baptized when I was 11.

Speaker 1: 43:41

Now wait what kind of church is that? Now, I understand Baptists are a little more animated, right Like they sing and they dance, but are we talking about the snake handlers and stuff? No, Okay.

Speaker 3: 43:53

This was First Baptist Church of Swainsboro, georgia. So no, we didn't do any of that. There was no talking in tongues, none of that. But in theory you weren't supposed to drink or dance. I'm not saying everybody followed it very well. And I was only 11. So I was just observing what was going on. But by the time I made it into college I'm thinking well, it seems a little hypocritical.

Speaker 3: 44:23

They're teaching one thing on Sunday, but they were doing it all on Saturday, which is what got me to questioning. So I did my research. I figured out where I needed to be.

Speaker 1: 44:39

And you found your answers.

Speaker 3: 44:43

I'm comfortable.

Speaker 1: 44:44

Good.

Speaker 3: 44:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:47

Number eight Banana, banana.

Speaker 3: 44:56

I'm thinking fishing which is you don't bring bananas on a boat. It's not cool why you want to get. It's a thing. I never heard that before. Take a fishing charter. They got decals on there.

Speaker 1: 45:14

Don't bring a banana on a boat. Is it because you're going to slip on the peel?

Speaker 3: 45:19

I don't know what it's about.

Speaker 2: 45:22

I think it's a bad luck thing, if I remember right, huh yeah, it's a bad luck thing.

Speaker 3: 45:26

Yeah, now I don't know what banana boats do. Okay, antibiotics do.

Speaker 1: 45:35

Okay, number nine Field.

Speaker 3: 45:43

Field. Well, that word could have any number.

Speaker 2: 45:49

Right.

Speaker 3: 45:55

When I think of a field field I'm thinking about my dog running around, chasing a ball or having a good time so, uh, just an open space yeah, or I love baseball. I love baseball fields. I just up, uh, I just went to Truist Park, up where the Braves play, last week with my daughter. I've been to the other Braves stadiums but I hadn't been to that one and it's beautiful. So if you ever get a chance, go.

Speaker 1: 46:26

I haven't been there. I will have to check it out. Okay, last one, the pressure's off, number 10.

Speaker 3: 46:36

Home, home when the heart is and where my lovely wife is and our two dogs. You know, sarasota's home to me. I was born in Florida.

Speaker 3: 46:48

I consider myself a Georgian as well as a Floridian, but they make me buy an out-of-state hunt license, so I'm losing that feeling that this is way off topic, but for years when you turn 65, right in Florida I don't need to buy a hunting or fishing license. I'm 65. And for years Florida would do that for Georgians and Georgia did that Floridians. So for a couple of years after my dad turned 65, he didn't have to buy a license in Georgia. And then Florida put in a saltwater fishing license requirement and Georgia went screw you, florida, you're going to have to start buying licenses again.

Speaker 1: 47:39

Like always, a couple of guys ruined it for everybody. Yeah just in time for me to turn 65,.

Speaker 2: 47:46

I know, you know. It's amazing to me that God creates all the animals, sets them to be fruitful and multiply, and yet we have to ask our government overlords if we can consume them.

Speaker 3: 47:59

I know. But if you go back to the 1930s, white-tailed deer were almost decimated in this country. There were hardly any in Georgia. I grew up in Georgia and I started hunting in 1960 with my dad and he didn't kill a deer until 1971. So we weren't really good at it, but there just weren't that many deer. Now that, and when you buy a license, when you buy camo, when you buy ammo, there's a 10 I think it's 10 excise tax that goes towards game management. So it's the hunters that have brought the game back and you do have to manage the game. You gotta, you gotta take out a certain number or the herd will do it itself, the nature will do it itself. But we got more white-tailed deer in this country right now than we've had maybe forever, certainly since the 1930s. And that's all about the government getting involved and managing it.

Speaker 2: 49:12

They do a good job. What are your thoughts about the elk that are migrating further south? I think they've been spotted over in West Tennessee.

Speaker 3: 49:20

They were introduced. Tennessee, north Carolina, virginia have introduced elk herds. Did they? A couple of those states actually have a very short season, but they were introduced. They did not migrate Okay, but they were introduced. They did not migrate okay, but they were there a thousand years ago yeah so it's a natural habitat. They just got hunted out. Uh that, and as a motorcyclist, you don't want to hit a deer. You damn sure don't want to hit an elk oh no, that's a bad day.

Speaker 2: 49:52

I mean. It's kind. It's kind of like the whole bison out west. Bison out west, I mean they were just by the thousands If you rewind quite a few hundred years ago. And then they build the railway and whenever they build the railroads they're just shooting them 30-30, slinging them out the side of a rail car, just killing as many of them as they possibly can.

Speaker 3: 50:12

It was millions there and as many of them as they possibly can. It was millions. There was a lot of buffalo, an awful lot of buffalo, but again, no game management so anybody could shoot anything. I mean, when I started hunting in Georgia in 1960, you couldn't kill does, and I think you got one buck tag In Georgia. Now you get two buck tags and 10 doe tags. Wow, so it worked right. They say there's 20 deer per square mile in Georgia. Wow, in the country, pretty good.

Speaker 1: 50:56

You need some regulation and oversight in everything. But obviously that can go too far right. When it's someone's job to regulate, they're going to over-regulate and the oversight might get to be too much. But I think when it's common sense it's kind of, you know, necessary.

Speaker 3: 51:18

It's necessary and, matt, I understand your analogy, which is more like the Robin Hood analogy. Right, the king went. Well, this is my forest, those are my deer, yeah. Well that ain't fair.

Speaker 1: 51:30

It's too much? Well, that ain't fair.

Speaker 3: 51:33

Right, it's too much and to my knowledge the United States doesn't have any places where only United States government employees can hunt. They all have to go and there's a problem with hunting, especially in Florida. It's all private land, so finding a place to hunt and there are some nice places Green Swamp, there's some WMAs that you can hunt but it's still got to be managed and that's going to cost some money.

Speaker 2: 52:08

Which Green Swamp is huge. I mean, I went out there. My wife and I went out there because I only live about probably 30, 40 minutes from there. It's to the northeast from where I'm at. I went out there and so, chris, you're on this road, this random road in the middle of nowhere I think it's either Rock Ridge or Dean Still and you turn left onto this dirt path and you don't exit that management area for probably an hour. It takes about an hour to get across it because you've got it, you got to go slower. There's people out there, stuff like that, but you know you're driving and you, like you lose all cell phone reception.

Speaker 2: 52:42

I mean, you, all you see is just nothing but wildlife and it's absolutely gorgeous, but I I was more coming at it from the, from the saltwater perspective. Um, so I'm a water bug. You know. I love the ocean, love everything about it. Uh, what aggravates me is, yeah, we do have the management, but there's also mismanagement that comes along with it. Are you familiar with what's going on in the water? Uh, around big pine key right now no, what is, what is?

Speaker 2: 53:10

so if you look up, big pine, key hawks channel, ramrod, summer, that entire area right there, I think it's actually from Marathon down to Summerlin, if I remember right. But what's going on is the water is exceptionally warm. Now I've been swimming in that water not an exaggeration since I was maybe three or four years old that's how long I've been in that area. But essentially what happened is they built the water dams up in the everglades and after that we didn't get that flush out. Whole ordeal.

Speaker 2: 53:37

Us right army corps of engineers came in, built that we weren't getting that whole flush flushing out, and so the water kept getting warmer and stagnant, and more warm and more stagnant. And so now what do we have? We have stronger hurricanes, but there's something going on with the water that the university of florida, a whole bunch of colleges, are trying to figure out where the fish are acting weird. So they're swimming in this like vertical pattern. It's almost look like they're either drugged or high or something along those lines, but they have no clue. What's going on? And in my thought process is well, if you'd have left it the way that God created it, you wouldn't have had this problem, for sure.

Speaker 3: 54:13

Yeah, way that god created it, you wouldn't have this problem, for sure. Yeah, there's no question. Uh, yeah, it's a problem over there, big problem, and uh, I mean red tide. You didn't hear about red tide 30 years ago. Maybe we didn't know what it was, but it certainly shows up a lot more than it used to probably weren't dumping toxic chemicals into the Gulf 30 years ago.

Speaker 3: 54:37

Well, I'm sure we were, but, but we're definitely doing it now. And yeah, that whole, that whole Everglades thing. So how'd we get on this topic with Blame, matt it's his fault.

Speaker 2: 54:50

Look, I saw a rabbit. I chased it and we ended up here this podcast can go anywhere.

Speaker 1: 54:57

I told you that at the beginning. I said, barry, is there anything? You don't want to talk about. He's like, like what I'm like? I don't know where we're going to go, I have no idea where this is going to go and, of course, barry's the type of man who said well, I can't even think of anything. I'm like well, there you go, we should yeah we've talked about hunting, fishing and aliens, so we're bringing this whole thing full circle.

Speaker 1: 55:17

Indiana Jones came up multiple times. I mean, listen, this is the second time we recorded. This is now going to be two full episodes. So you know, this just hopefully shows you how impactful and important I think you are to the fraternity, how impactful and important I think you are to the fraternity.

Speaker 1: 55:35

Barry is a true Mason, like what Masons are supposed to be Someone who's legitimately trying to become a better person. I've watched him make mistakes, recognize those mistakes, apologize for those mistakes. Not every Mason does that. I've watched you try to listen to somebody that you completely disagree with, because you're actually trying to understand their position, not just waiting for your turn to talk. I've seen you give guidance to people when they needed it. You really are exactly what the fraternity needs and you're a pillar in our lodge.

Speaker 1: 56:12

I feel guilty that I'm not there to help you. You know, continue on what you've been doing. I do feel a amount of guilt for that, but you know I'll do what I can, always, from wherever I am, honestly for that lodge and to support those guys. Of course I will, but I'll do anything I can. But at the end of the day it's going to be up to those guys and I know you're of the same mind. You can't do it for them. They have to find their own way, and all we can do is support them at the end of the day, because that's what good Masons do. So I'm really happy that you could come on and spend this time with us. I feel like I learned a little more about you than I knew before, and I'm hoping that people that aren't even Masons listen to this episode, because they'll get to see what really goes on. It really is real people here just trying to do good. You've lived a lifetime as a Mason now, practically.

Speaker 3: 57:07

I haven't even got that 40-year award. Man, come on, really, I was raised in 88. Where's that put?

Speaker 1: 57:19

2028 will be for you. You're talking to Matt who's not even got a year under his belt. I haven't even got five years, I think, under mine, maybe just five.

Speaker 3: 57:30

It'll be here before you know it.

Speaker 1: 57:32

Enjoy every minute of it. If enjoy every minute right, if we're lucky. There's no guarantees.

Speaker 1: 57:39

And that's one thing I have to say that I've always found Like I look up to you because I feel like you're living your life to the fullest. You're always in the moment, wherever you are, and that's something I really I really do look up to and I want to. I want to be more like that in my life, just be present with the people wherever you are and whatever you're doing. You're doing a great job of that and I don't know how long it took you to get there, but you're there and I think people feel that when they talk to you, that even if they disagree with you, you're looking at them as a human being and they're going to be able to have a conversation with you, and that's rare these days and really necessary. So you're really valuable to the fraternity in our district, especially Because I know you're not just about one lodge.

Speaker 1: 58:30

You're really active in like four lodges at least that I know of, and you're probably ancillary active in nine to ten lodges, uh, on a regular basis. You are, uh, and you know. The thing is, you're seven years old and you're not slowing down. This is the great. This is our fraternity's greatness is that there is no age limit. Like you a warrior, you're a gladiator out there in the field, still doing the work, still fighting, at 70 years old, and I don't see you slowing down anytime soon. So that's another thing.

Speaker 1: 59:03

I look up to you for that.

Speaker 3: 59:07

Slowing down is not a good idea.

Speaker 1: 59:10

Yeah. You don't want to slow down.

Speaker 3: 59:12

That's what I'm telling my friends. My age is do not sit in front of the TV and spend all your time looking at Facebook. It's not going to be good for you.

Speaker 1: 59:24

A lot of regrets. That's what you're going to have.

Speaker 3: 59:28

Yeah Well, I don't know, what you're going to have. If you're a friend of mine on Facebook and you never hear from me, it's because I don't Facebook. I'm a friend of yours and I never hear from you. You won't Exactly right. Every now and then I'll like something that's got a picture of my grandkids in it, and that's about it.

Speaker 2: 59:49

Speaking of not sitting around and being slothful, I just heard back from one of the guys who are going on that motorcycle ride. It is the entire month of August, it's from August 1st to September 3rd and that's Brother George Maxwell. He's a freshly raised Master Mason. We'll be doing catechisms this upcoming week for his Master Mason gift back. But yeah, so shout out to Brother Maxwellwell and, uh, brother travis, two great, great brothers that's still gonna be a trip.

Speaker 3: 1:00:17

I did and uh, in 21 I did, uh, 9700 miles. We went to california up the west coast and back and uh, that was 40 days, so to do that in 30. Of course, we got a friend, chris, who rode a bicycle from California to Venice in 30 days. A bicycle in 30 days, that's crazy, that's insane.

Speaker 1: 1:00:43

It is crazy, but he's in great shape, like I'd have a heart attack 10 minutes in.

Speaker 3: 1:00:48

He's a beast, he's younger than we are too.

Speaker 1: 1:00:52

Yeah, we'll go with that, it's because he's younger than we are too. Yeah, we'll go with that. It's because he's younger? Yeah, that's what I'm going with. That's brother Bob Gatins. He's from Englewood Lodge and he's an up-and-coming guy in District 23. I saw that the first time I laid eyes on him.

Speaker 3: 1:01:12

I knew he was going to be a leader in the future. Yes, he's a good man and a good ritualist. Yeah, because he tries. Yeah, he does, he takes everything serious. Hunter too, that guy goes out. You don't see him when you're hunting because he goes out in the morning and doesn't come out until dark, so he likes it out there.

Speaker 1: 1:01:33

Well, thank you again, Ray Warshawar. I always like to leave our guests with the last word. Is there anything you'd like to say to the world, Mason?

Speaker 3: 1:01:48

or non-Masons who might be listening to this podcast. No, there's nothing I need to say to the world, but I do. Chris, it's always a pleasure talking with you and Matt Nice to meet you. I'd like to come up to your lodge sometime.

Speaker 2: 1:01:59

Please, you're always welcome.

Speaker 3: 1:02:05

Okay, but thanks for what you do with masonry, Chris. We got way off the subject of masonry in this thing, but it's fun and anything I can do to help you guys y'all let me know.

Speaker 1: 1:02:16

Fair enough. Thank you, sir. We'll look forward to seeing you next time. I'll see you at Grand Lodge. Actually, we're bunking up. We're sharing a room together. I apologize for the snoring already.

Speaker 3: 1:02:28

Don't worry about it. It'll be dueling snoring, so we'll be fine. I'll see you Sunday, all right, okay, thank y'all, see you.