On The Level Podcast
Some people think Freemasonry is on the decline, not if we have anything to say about it! Join On the Level Podcast as we explore that Esoteric side of Freemasonry. We talk about the inner workings of our Fraternity, how to apply it's teachings to your every day life to become a better man, and general current events. Join our host and guests as we explore Freemasonry together and bring our ancient craft into the modern age!
On The Level Podcast
In Pursuit of an Authentic Self: The Intersection of Masonry and Personal Growth
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Embark on a Masonic odyssey that transcends mere fraternal bonds, as we recount an esoteric gathering which united Masons from diverse lodges. Our discourse spans the symbolic construction of one's inner temple to the historical echoes of Solomon's legendary edifice. This episode is a tapestry woven from personal insights and shared experiences, all aimed at guiding us on the path of self-improvement. There's an undeniable gravity to the camaraderie felt on motorcycle rides to Arcadia, where the lessons of the Master Mason degree are brought to life, forging stronger connections between brethren.
Venture with us into the heart of what it means to build genuine, fulfilling relationships in an era dominated by digital facades. We peel back the layers on the complexities of human interaction, exploring the pressures of fame, the rarity of true transformation post-incarceration, and the pursuit of authenticity in a world often shrouded in illusion. Prepare to navigate the nuanced discussions on the pitfalls of success, the enduring wisdom of King Solomon, and the uplifting triumphs against personal demons, as we consider the interplay of spirituality and Masonic philosophy.
Listen closely as we address the delicate dance of communication in the age of social media unfriending and the significance of deep listening. Updates on the bustling Masonic calendar hint at the vibrancy of the community, while teasing the future direction of our dialogues. From the sanctity of Solomon's temple to the forefront of modern Masonic education and growth, this episode is a mosaic of ancient wisdom, contemporary challenges, and the eternal quest for enlightenment.
Exploring Masonry and the Temple
Speaker 1Hey , chris , yeah , fred , what's a Mason ?
Speaker 2That's a really good question , fred .
Speaker 1You've reached the internet's home for all things masonry . Join Chris and I as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft , from the common gavel to the trowel . Nothing is off the table , so grab your tools and let's get to work . This is On the Level we are back .
Speaker 2Back again . We are back . Look who's back . Back again .
Speaker 1Chris and Fred Hold on , hold on . We can't start the show with Chris singing . Oh , was that rapping , are you sure ? Send ?
Speaker 2your cards and letters to Chris .
Speaker 1And tell us if that was rapping .
Speaker 2I'm not a big rapper . I've got to be honest with you . I'm starting to get that .
Speaker 1Now our associate producer , Johnny . He's big into the rap thing .
Speaker 2He was here and he'd be like cut the rap off .
Speaker 1He'd be saying that's not rap .
Speaker 2Yes , you're right . I apologize to everyone for that . Good morning , good afternoon , good evening . Good morning my brother .
Speaker 1Oh no , it's morning . It's 6.43 am . We are here in the studio and we got here promptly at 6 am .
Speaker 2I'm very proud of you , my brother .
Speaker 1Couple of ruffians up in here . Couple of ruffians . I like the concept of ruffians Wandering off the streets . We should probably do something with that idea . I don't know . Just saying so . I want to start off the show today , Just giving a major shout out .
Speaker 2Is that what you want ?
Speaker 1That's what I want to start the show like that that's what I want and that's what I'm going to get . Alright , johnny , I'm going to get what I want . Go for it . A major shout out to the brothers that met at Worshville .
Speaker 2Burns .
Speaker 1House the other night to do the esoteric group .
Speaker 2Discussion night . Discussion night .
Speaker 1Went really well . We had 13 men around a fire .
Speaker 2That was cool , huh .
Speaker 1Drinking premium whiskey and cigars . And discussing all things esoteric , masonic , esoteric teaching , and I for one just felt to me it kind of took our masonic experience , our masonic career , to another level . It was a bonding moment , I don't want to get too drippy here , but it was a great moment I thought . I mean all around . I don't think there was a cross word , a discouraging word whatsoever . It was all positive , it was all educational .
Speaker 2There were some moments but it was all educational . There was a lot of moments for people too .
Speaker 1Yeah , there really was .
Speaker 2I was like , wow , that's crazy that you said that I never thought about that . Not from us , but from the people that were there .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's right , it was really great . I would encourage anybody out there listening Get something like that going in your lodge , get together and do this .
Speaker 2Here's the other thing , though how many lodges were represented there ? Five , five lodges out of our district .
Speaker 1How is that possible ?
Speaker 2Five people from five different lodges cared enough to get together outside the lodge without any hope of recompense or titles , just to talk about Freemasonry .
Speaker 1And also , let's not forget three active worshipful masters as well . So that was quite a gathering . Three sitting masters . Three sitting masters were there , it was awesome .
Speaker 2I think that they were doing it without us previously . Two of them , worshipful Tim Ferdon of Venice Lodge , released the catalyst . He was the one that was like . I guess he heard the podcast after one of their sessions . We thought we should bring them into this somehow .
Speaker 1Somehow he thinks we know what we're doing .
Speaker 2Yeah , he did bring us into that and it was . I think that was a success for everybody that was there and immediately they wanted to do it again . So we're trying to put another date on the books for the next month . At somebody else's house , because now we have our entire district , so we got to move from the north to the south .
Speaker 1Right , and I think that's important . I think it can't be static in one place . It's got to be a traveling show where we go from area to area . They were talking a little , I think , down in Inglewood . For the others , you guys don't know . Inglewood is south . We're in Sarasota , florida . Inglewood is the Gulf Coast . Inglewood is south of us .
Speaker 2Yeah , and .
Speaker 1Bradenton is north of us , so our district covers the Gulf Coast of Florida area what Punagorda up through Tampa .
Speaker 2I think we go just up to Bradenton . Oh is that ?
Speaker 1right , okay , yeah , we're not Tampa .
Speaker 2We're just out to where whatever peace river is Peace river Arcadia .
Speaker 1Arcadia yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , so anyway , moment of silence there Not good to get air Arcadia .
Speaker 2yeah , yeah , arcadia .
Speaker 1I know everybody pauses Arcadia , oh boy they need to drive there . Now , if you're in the motorcycle community , you love Arcadia because that's a great place , a couple of great bars out there , man .
Speaker 2Really Good times .
Speaker 1Yeah , fun ride too Fun ride to scoot out there with the boys and it's quiet , right , it's quiet until we show up .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , do you guys ride out ?
Speaker 1there All the time , all the time , yeah , the shrine motor court . That I have never ridden out there with them , but I'm new . I'm new , so we'll love it .
Speaker 2You're talking about just as regular folks . Yeah , just mere mortals .
Speaker 1A bunch of guys with Harleys , we jump on the bikes and we ride out east and there's a couple of old , cool old bars out there that go have an adult beverage , perhaps a premium cigar , and hang out and talk all things masonic and or not .
Speaker 2Do they ever talk about the master Mason degree , Fred ?
Speaker 1Do they ever talk about the master Mason degree ? I'm going to say yes and I'm just going to go with that lie .
Speaker 2Like we are today , right now going to talk about the master Mason degree , we are indeed Nice segue my brother , nice segue .
Speaker 1Yeah well , we left off . We were . We left off with the three grand masters . So we are currently at 5.14 in the mentors manual . This is the GL 217 revised edition 2008 . This is the official mentors manual for the state of Florida .
Speaker 2This is the one you brought to the esoteric discussion I did .
Speaker 1I did , and I did that for a very specific reason is to keep the conversation going in that direction . And if you think it was some guy droning on reading out of a book , not so we read a paragraph .
Speaker 1I read the beginning paragraph out of the EA side and we had a 35 minute discussion that went round and round the whole group . I think every man shared and asked questions and gave answers and it was incredible . So if you're going to do this , I recommend grab whatever state you're from , I'm sure you all have a mentors manual . Just grab that mentors manual and that's where you can begin the conversation . And you got to have some kind of knucklehead up there , like me , who's able to direct everybody back without stifling free thought , which is not easy to do . But I know you're out there , I know you guys are out there , so you can do it .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's just , it's just , it's a .
Speaker 2Or you will be once . You try it once or twice , right ?
Speaker 1Right . At first it's a little uncomfortable . People are like who is this guy ? Why does this guy keep budding in ? And then all of a sudden they're like it's flowing , the conversation is good and rich , and it's like , oh , OK . Ok , Because I don't really have that much intelligence to share , but I do have this annoying habit of getting into people's way constantly . So it works . It works well for me . You know that you play the cards You're dealt . You play the cards You're dealt .
Speaker 1Anyways , I'm going to read from the 5.14 is the Temple of Solomon . I would like to do the next three in this particular one , because it's the Temple of Solomon , the symbolization of the temple , and then Solomon , king of Israel , and it's it's . It's a lot of reading . Maybe we'll try to break it out a little bit , but let's just start off with that , with that 5.14 , and see where we go . How about that 5.14 . 5.14 . Wash it over me . Here we go . This , the Temple of Solomon . This magnificent structure was located on Mount Moriah at Jerusalem .
Speaker 2It was near the place where Abraham was about to offer up his son .
Speaker 1Isaac . I got an echo in here . The site was purchased by David , king of Israel , solomon's father , from Oman , the Jesubite , for it was at this place that the hand of the destroying angel was stayed after David had repented . The cost of this threshing floor was 50 shekels of silver , which included the oxen offered by David as a sacrifice to God at the staying of the destroying angel in the time of the great pestilence . The incident is recorded in 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21 . The name of the Jesubite and the cost of the threshing floor differ in the two accounts . Correct , that is correct . Oh , lovely , the it's it's . Let's not go there .
Speaker 1The building of the temple was begun in the year of the world 2992 and completed around 3000 , which is 1012 to to to 1004 BC , which is a little easier to understand . Seven and a half years later , the people of Israel had come out of Egypt some 480 years before , as a band of refugees . The mind of this people had grown , for they had conquered a new land , established both a formal religion and a government sufficiently powerful to make possible such a project . The people lost their sense of spiritual direction and destiny , so that their temple was destroyed in the year of 586 BC by the hordes of King Nebuchadnezzar , the king of the Chaldeans , which is actually Babylon , modern day Babylon , or , yeah , so the Chaldeans ? King Nebuchadnezzar was the king of Babylon , which was the largest , most powerful nation on the planet at the time Someone you shouldn't make enemies with .
Speaker 1Someone you shouldn't make enemies with . But if you wanted to read the story of Nebuchadnezzar's life , I recommend the book of Daniel with the prophecy of Daniel . He's in there and it's pretty amazing .
Speaker 2It's an amazing story , but anyway so we did cover a lot of the temple , I think in the early first session I think we did on the Master Mason degree . Yeah , I know we covered its building and who we bought it from and what the threshing floor was . We definitely covered all that .
Speaker 1Right right .
Speaker 2So interesting they came back to it after the kings ?
Speaker 1Yeah well , I'm not sure . I think that was just one of our rabbit holes . It wasn't actually in the book . We just ended up going there . Yeah , absolutely , but the analogy of the temple , I love it . I love that building the temple .
Speaker 2The temple that housed the living spirit of God was housed in the sanctum sanctorum .
Speaker 1Well , the Holy of Holies , the most holy place , was the place where no one could , you couldn't , just walk in there . There was a veil that covered it and inside was the presence of God which you couldn't enter in to that place . The priest could enter in once a year . Yeah , we did talk about this . The priest could enter in once a year and he would bring a blood sacrifice on behalf of the people , because you cannot go into the presence of perfection in your current state without mediation , and we'll leave that right there .
Speaker 1Well that's the point of the sacrificial system that we're talking about right now was it was mediatorial and it was also temporary . It pointed to something else and there's always a mediator between you and the judge . You have an attorney right , or a dead animal in this case . In this case , it was a symbolism which we're masons , we're into symbolism . But speaking of symbolism , tell me what is the symbolism of the temple , solomon's temple to you ? Where do you start with that ?
Speaker 2Well , I start with the inner-deprentice degree , when I'm told to stand in the northeast corner of the lodge where all cornerstones are laid Right and that I'm supposed to start building a spiritual temple . So that's where the idea of the temple me building the temple began
The Masonic Journey and Temple Building
Speaker 2the .
Speaker 2Masonic journey , and now we're at the end of the Master Mason degree and I'm getting a more vivid picture of what that means to have . What's the symbolism and the representation of that temple that I'm supposed to be building , which is that I'm trying to make myself worthy of housing , just like the sanctum sanctorum was the living spirit of God . Like to be worthy of that . To build my temple enough to be worthy of that is the lifelong goal that I have as a Mason Right , and I don't have thousands of bears of burden , I only have myself . So it's going to take more than seven years , unfortunately .
Speaker 1I would say that it's going to take the rest of our lives . That would be it .
Speaker 2Hopefully we get close by the end , hopefully , but it's the journey that matters , that you're actually trying to do it . Talking to my wife about this recently on Masonic . But so Masonic is that it's a burden to be critical of yourself and to work on yourself . It goes against your nature and so it's very difficult for people to do , but the rewards are unimaginable for those willing to take that path , and it is really not for everybody . It's hard work . People don't like to do hard work and to challenge our . One of the things that came out in our discussion group was challenging our world views and how hard that is .
Speaker 2Yeah that's true . That might be the most difficult thing we do as people is to change our world view .
Speaker 1Well , a world view is how you see the world . It's the glasses that you see the world through . So , yes , changing that , developing it first thing and knowing what it is is really really hard , and then changing it , based on plausibility , in fact , is very difficult and you have to have an open mind , you have to be willing to surround yourself with people who have very different views than you , which Masonry supplies you every day , and you can grow within that world view . My world view comes from a very Christian background . That's my world view . I see the world through that lens and other people , and in the discussion group last night it was pretty cool to see the different world views that were spoken and I was very much noticing the different perspectives that each man had when they were coming from . It's just to me , if you're surrounded by people who look like you , think like you and talk like you , get out of there .
Speaker 1And get yourself out into the world . Don't try to be king of the wicker people . Don't try to be king of the wicker people .
Speaker 2No .
Speaker 1I don't know . What does that mean ?
Speaker 2I don't really know .
Speaker 1OK , all right .
Speaker 2King of the wicker people . I'm pretty sure that was a quote of some movie and if you're listening , tell us what it is .
Speaker 1You'll win a prize . Hey , we had somebody send us an email with a correction about a movie reference and I want to say , first thing good , catch brother out there .
Speaker 2He sent video proof . I think he did .
Speaker 1So George Clooney was in fact Batman at one time he was yes . And I made the mistake of saying Christian Slater , I meant to say Christian Bale who was also Batman .
Speaker 2Ok , I was trying to run through all the Batman and you were like no , no , no , no , it's Bale .
Speaker 1It's Bale and in my opinion , he ruined Batman . I think he did a terrible job .
Speaker 2Those were great movies , though Very good the Dark Knight . Let me just back up .
Speaker 1The Dark Knight was a great movie , oh yeah , it was really good , yeah , yeah , heath Ledger as a joker which took he gave his life for that role for goodness' sake , my goodness , on another level that man was possessed by . I just , I didn't like , I just didn't . I didn't like the way he went the way he went about it and , you know , with the voice I think it was the voice the way he talked , as Batman here , talk like this .
Speaker 2I'll tell you , it was just like come on man . I mean that was the best thing they did with the new one in Ben Affleck is they put like a voice modulator on the Batman so I didn't have to do the crazy voice all the time Right , right yeah . It just sounded more scary , naturally . Right yeah , and he's a tech guy , of course he'd do that .
Speaker 1Of course he would . That's right . He would just hey , right , I'm going to beat you up with my technology Right no .
Speaker 2Use the technology to scare the man .
Speaker 1Wow , what a rabbit hole man . We're on Batman right now .
Speaker 2Woo Water's fine down here . Come on guys , come on down , come on down , some Batman . Yeah you're right , he did send a correction and multiple pictures . That guy was really wanting to make sure we knew about it . Yeah , and right now .
Speaker 1I'm apologizing to him because I should have brought up the email so I could shout out to him by name . So forgive me , brother , I will eventually . We will do that because it would be the right thing to do .
Speaker 1So , anyways , for me , the temple building , the temple of Solomon , it always comes back down to building my temple so that I am useful to the master . That's the whole idea for me . And in masonry , wherever you go , you see the temple . You walk into Lodge and it's laid out like the temple . I mean , everything you do is based on that great structure that was . There is physical evidence of that structure in the place that it is recorded in the accounts that are in Chronicles and Samuels . It's there . The foundation is still there and it's the second temple , I suppose you could say , because Herod's temple was built on top of the ruins of the original temple .
Speaker 1But nevertheless that one got destroyed too . In AD 70 , the Roman hordes came through .
Speaker 2Well , you know , fred , they destroyed it . You'll like this when you do join the York right .
Speaker 1When I do . That's quite an assumption . I know you will . And when you do ?
Speaker 2you will receive a degree in which you actually have to enter the sanctum sanctum and you , as a participant , get to go do that yourself .
Speaker 1I would just say that it is a representation called the sanctum , sanctum the true sanctum . Sanctum is no longer necessary and it is no longer an actual physical place . It's a person now . But we'll go well , I'll grant that . Let's move on .
Speaker 2It's not . You're not going to Jerusalem for this degree . It is here , probably , depending on where you live when you join . But here , and it's just such a cool experience because you read about this and some of our degrees we do really well and that one's one of the ones that is impressive . It's an impression after you go through that , to imagine what they must have , the steps they took and the things they did in that time in order to worship was pretty intense .
Speaker 1Oh , it was very intense . It had right and it makes sense , because if God is who he says he is , then he's pretty serious dude . Yeah , yeah , he's not a dude , he's not to be right . So , and that was the whole idea behind it . You know , and that's again that's why representation is so important . You know , you can't just blah , blah , blah , walk right in . You know , hey , what's up , man , what's going on ? It's like you're a pile of ash .
Speaker 1Anyway , exactly Right , right so but anyways , it goes back to that's a great point it goes back to building the temple and making it , building my temple so that I can be useful to the master .
Speaker 1and that goes back to , you know , the , the , the vices and superfluities of life , you know the square which represents the virtues which we try to build , the virtues and we try to tear down the vices , you know , in our lives , and be and be those men who are useful to our families , to our community , to our churches , to to everybody you know in this world and and who doesn't believe that we need more men who are , you know , pro virtue in this , in this world these days , because there's a lot of vice and a lot of lack of virtue out there , especially in the business world .
Speaker 1I find anymore , my goodness , in in the , in the construction industry it is just shark infested waters . Everywhere you go , everyone's out yeah to , you know there's . You can't trust anybody . I know I'm exaggerating there , but it's like you can't trust anybody in business anymore . Everything's got to be locked down so tight and even then you still end up walking away . You know , deep , deep , defamed and harmed or or financially , you know , harmed in some way . It's just that doing business in this world anymore is tough because nobody practices virtue anymore .
Speaker 2Yeah , people just assume . Step on your faces , look at you these days .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And it's like everywhere . It's in your politics , your church , it's in your job . It just seems to be a part of life in our country at least , I'm assuming . It's all over the world People are like this . By and large , it's like and then , you know , does every generation think that about itself ? I wonder yeah , right right ?
Speaker 2Do we all look to the past and be like man ? They were so much better than we are today ? Probably probably . Well , there was , certainly there were greater generations , right , the greatest generation is still don't get me started on that one . No , no , no , I'm bored with the greatest generation not on board , not on board . But I can tell you this .
Speaker 1There was a major emphasis on virtue at one time in this country and that , when you know the when the Puritans first came over here and a Puritan is a bad word because Hollywood has turned them into these weird , weird , crazy people but actually they were just people that were just fleeing persecution- and trying to find a new place .
Speaker 1And were they perfect ? No , they were not perfect . They were flawed human beings , but they did have a very high standard of virtue when it came to business , when it came to family and all of that stuff . So you back in that day , you know , the contract was in fact your reputation in a handshake , you know your handshake with with someone you were doing business with in the presence of other people was as good as a contract , Because if you violated that handshake , that agreement you're done .
Speaker 2Yeah , you were done in the community .
Speaker 1Nobody would ever do business with you again . Yeah , and it was a , so that it was a different time .
Speaker 2So consequences for your actions . You had consequences .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely . And if there are no consequences for your actions , things , the bar just gets moved further and further down .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And then you , you're , you're at this race to the bottom , which is kind of where we're at .
Speaker 2That's where we are .
Speaker 1That's where we are . We're racing to the bottom .
Speaker 1But , let me . Let me stop right there .
Importance of Masonry and Human Interaction
Speaker 1It's easy for me , a 60 year old , grumpy old man , to say that , but I got to be honest with you . Lately I've been talking to one of my sons , troy . He's just about to get his architectural and design license . He's gone through what seems like 10 years of schooling to get it and he's a he's a brilliant designer and architect . But he is also a part of a group of young men , and I see it too in masonry as well . I see some young men in masonry to where . I feel like you know what , if these guys can get some traction going , there is hope . There definitely is hope . It's not in 60 year old men on on a podcast , like me . The hope is in these young men who , who truly understand virtue , who understand you know what democracy really is , which we don't really have anymore here in this country . And these , these guys that won't take it anymore . They're not listening anymore , they don't believe it anymore .
Speaker 2Yeah , and you know it's interesting because I think about like Kyle .
Speaker 1Yeah , right , right and in your maybe 20s .
Speaker 2You don't you guys don't know who Kyle is , but shout out Kyle . Kyle's the young guy in his 20s . That's relatively new to our lodge and he represents that age I think he's in . He's grown up with technology . He didn't embrace it , it just is it is for there Right .
Speaker 1There was never a time that there wasn't a full blown Internet . It's not like they had to embrace it .
Speaker 2just it's like air yeah it's always been there . They have it right and you know and car rides and listening and stuff , and they're talking about using technology to rid themselves of technology and control Right . All they dream about is a life without the system of control that they grew up in .
Speaker 1I love this technology . It's so full circle , right , right , right . Isn't that awesome .
Speaker 2And we are the cause of it . We were just like more technology , more technology more .
Speaker 2Oh , we got a problem , let's use some technology to fix it . Yeah , and every time we do , it takes away a little bit more of ourselves , right , it's like a little more controlling . Maybe it does more things for us that we should be doing for ourselves , um , and , and it becomes more , more , more embedded into our lifestyle . And yeah , these kids today just want to be able to be themselves and figure out who they are . They don't even know because , you know , they grew up with social media . How warped Can you imagine if you grew up with social media , right ?
Speaker 1Yeah , as part of your life and and and so many other things you know um . I didn't have the the best childhood growing up . My parents were , you know . They did the best they could , but , um , but I , I had interaction with family members on a daily basis . Um , I went outside , I rode bicycles . I lived when I was young , I grew up , in the swamps of New Jersey and we had , you know , 150 square miles of swamp behind us . New Jersey has swamps . Oh yeah , it was great , it was awesome and it all .
Speaker 2I live , we live right at home in Florida swamps .
Speaker 1Well , this is a different swamp .
Speaker 2Um , we have . We still have prehistoric animals in our swamps . How about you ?
Speaker 1I live , right , I lived on a , on a lake that , um , it was a river , that , um , you could get on a little boat and you could end up on the Atlantic Ocean in two and a half hours through the Barnicket Inlet and any of you from Jersey know what I'm talking about the Barnicket Bay and the Barnicket Lighthouse . And I actually did it , me and my cousin has a child . Bad idea being in a tiny little boat next to super tankers . But , wow , different story .
Speaker 2That was before social media .
Speaker 1Yeah , but I had interaction with nature . I had everybody , all old people , say this crap all the time , right Well , I , when I was young , I was outside and we played and stuff .
Speaker 1These guys grew up where the the parents were hypnotized by technology . Yeah , therefore , by default , they had nothing else to do but to go to technology . It raised them , it literally raised them . And I look at my , my one son , troy um , as an example . You know he , he wants to go outside , he wants to do things like go hiking , he wants to camp . And my daughter and my son-in-law up in Virginia they just bought a camper , um , they want to be outside . You know my , my son , eric , wants to get a boat . You know my other son my son Danny .
Speaker 2We go on vacation we we go to a place that has the least phone signal to unplug for a couple days . Yeah , man , just to get a little bit of like a breath .
Speaker 1I'm all about that .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's . That's like desirable vacation time , just unplugging from tech .
Speaker 1Right , I , I'd notice that um at the uh at the uh discussion group the other night not one person had their phone .
Speaker 2Nope , not one person .
Speaker 1We were out there for what ?
Speaker 2Two hours , two and a half hours Two and a half hours Two and a half hours in this discussion and which felt like half an hour , yeah Um , to me .
Speaker 1But not one person pulled their phone out , not even one time . And we were outside in in the wilderness , and it was nice , man , it was really nice , you know , to interact with other human beings , apart from technology . So , anyways , uh , we're beaten that one to death . But I think it's a great point . I think it masonry offers an opportunity for young men uh , men of all ages , but especially specifically young men to get back to the art of human interaction , of of helping each other , because , uh , you know , young men learn best from older men who have gone before them and who are willing to turn back and and teach , and mentor and and be good examples . And where , where , where else are you going to find that man ? Um , except it's right here . Uh , it's right here in our fraternity . That's what we're about . We're literally about that . The catechism practice is what what's that about ? That's one man who's already done it teaching two or three men who haven't done it yet .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1I mean , that's really what this fraternity , in my opinion , is all about , and it's so sorely needed . Yeah , and I think that's why . That's why the craft is growing the way it's growing . Yeah , right now it is it is exploding across across the world . Yeah , numbers are going up , up , up , because I think young men are looking for their tribe . You know they're looking for a place to be challenged and , and I think Freemasonry is it . So that's my plug for our craft there this morning .
Speaker 2The most important thing is they're looking for something real . Yeah that's right and that's something that they can find .
Speaker 1Not virtual yeah .
Speaker 2But actual Something real , like spiritually real and physically real , yeah . And relationships that are real , yeah , uh cuz they see nothing but fake all the time .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's into intellectual carbohydrates . We've been feeding our kids on , you know , on cereal boxes . It's a good way to look at it . Yeah , and , and they're anemic , they're starving , they're hungry for actual food , you know , on a spiritual and intellectual basis , and and we're big on that At least I am , I know . I know you are too , brother . That's one of the reasons why this podcast exists is to light a fire under every man listening to go go back to your lodge .
Speaker 1Go back to your lodge and and set everyone on fire . Just set the place on fire , man .
Speaker 2Just do it Not Be the be the arson and intellectually and intellectual arsonist man .
Speaker 1Be the arsonist and the fireman all at the same time , not all actions are endorsed by Chris Burntup .
Speaker 2There's a podcast and please refrain from setting your lodge on fire .
Speaker 1Do not light your lodge on fire , please . Okay , alright , so five , five , point one . Five is the symbolism of the temple .
Speaker 2Oh , we were just talking about that .
Speaker 1Yeah , let's , uh , let's read and see what happens . This is an inexhaustible area of interpretation for the student of symbolism . For the purposes of this manual , however , only one seems important and will be used the chief purpose . The chief purpose of Solomon's temple was to provide a dwelling place for the most high in the midst of the of his people , israel . The religious concepts of the people of Israel had grown in respect to God , progressing from the Ark of the Covenant , carried on the shoulder of the priests , to the great temple which Solomon erected . The idea that God dwelled with man , however , was still the fundamental , was still the fundamental , which was still the fundamental which dominated human thought and should do so in our own day .
Speaker 1So right there there are those who claim that this was the most perfect edifice ever erected by man . Whether this is the case or not is a matter of pure supposition , but perfection was certainly the goal of both David and Solomon , each of whom had a part in planning God's dwelling place among men . And that so what ? What that's saying is the , the primary um .
The Purpose and Unity of Freemasonry
Speaker 1The primary purpose of using the temple , you know in as symbolism in masonry is that it's a .
Speaker 1It symbolizes the dwelling place of of God with man a holy and righteous , all knowing all powerful God with with troubled , flawed , imperfect human beings and and how does that happen ? And all of the things that the temple represents , and there's a lot of theology there , man , you could spend a lifetime studying it , which I have done , but it's . It's absolutely fabulous , but for masonry and for the you know the mason , any mason listening to this the the analogy is is is good .
Speaker 1It's a good , strong analogy that the temple represents this , this work that you're doing , um to to know God to know , to know who you know , to know this God , um , and , and to move forward , and , and , like I always tell people and you've heard me say it over and over again , what does that mean ? Uh , what do you believe ? Why do you believe it ? Um , what ? What is the most plausible explanation for all of these concepts and ideas that that you are , that you are believing in and or studying , or investigating ? You know ? It's , it's , those are the intellectual pursuits of spirituality that are just so important yeah , I think this is like a important part of free masonry .
Speaker 2That , that is , the pursuit of a closer relationship with our creator , is the purpose of free masonry , probably at its core . The tools and the system are all meant to allow us to get , force us to try to get closer with our creator , but no restriction on that creator or what it is , or the system that you choose to believe around it . We can all pursue that relationship together , even though they're so different .
Speaker 1I , I agree my personal systems of belief .
Speaker 2How genius is that ? Uh , one house that we can all do our work in together , and we all are getting better and closer in our relationship with our creator . But we could all literally all have different ideas about who that creator is , and we can still work together in harmony , yeah impressive .
Speaker 1I was just thinking about um Samuel , which is , uh , one of the the books , uh first and second , samuel um , which is with Chronicles and Kings , which we just referenced earlier , where where the story and accounts of King Solomon and and David are all found . Um Samuel was , uh , was a , was a prophet , and um , he was called to go to a I'm gonna paraphrase it here big time but he was called to go to a meeting of all the different spiritual aspects of the day and he challenged them on a mountain and and at the end of the day , it was whoever is , whoever you think is God , follow him . As for me , in my house , I'm gonna follow the Lord . He's talking about the Lord of the temple , he's talking about Yahweh , the Lord of the Israelites , and that's that's the attitude that I have .
Speaker 1My Christian brothers and friends . They criticize me all the time for you know being in masonry because I'm supposed to be an evangelized people and you know I'm supposed to get everybody saved and all that stuff . And and the truth is is that Anybody who wants to know what I know can ask me . I'll gladly tell them , but what I can't do is I can't , I can't , force anything on to anybody , but what I can do is is be in this place . This , this masonry , is a marketplace of ideas and All of us I keep thinking about the group , you know that circle around the fire , that it was a marketplace of different ideas . You know , and every man comes to this marketplace and and shares what he believes and why he believes it .
Investigating the Plausibility of Spirituality
Speaker 1Every man should be in a position where take what is most plausible based on what you have found and what you , what you are believing , and and Investigate it to the point where you understand it fully , because to me .
Speaker 1To me , the most important aspect of the human existence is the spiritual side of it . Because if there is an eternity , what does that mean ? And and what happens when we go there ? We don't have all the facts necessarily , you know so . So it's the most important endeavor a man can do in his life Is to investigate the spirituality . You better know it and you better investigate . If you're , if you're , the kind of person who wants to investigate the whole thing , I Recommend you do that . But when you come to the place where you find what is plausible , what is understandable , what is what is noble , pursue it . Pursue it and don't don't turn back from it , don't be awash in a thousand . This is my opinion , I mean . I Correct me if I'm wrong , wrong .
Speaker 1Oh sorry , Thank you your opinion first , but don't be awash with a thousand different beliefs that you only know a little bit about . Don't be that . Don't be that guy . Don't be that guy . What is the most ? Here's the question that I asked in the very beginning what is the most plausible explanation for why I'm here ? It's easier , from an evolutionary standpoint . It's easier for there to be nothing Than something right . Nothing doesn't take any work , doesn't take any chance , doesn't take any role of the dice . Nothing is nothing . That's the easiest way . However , there is something more than just something . There is this incredible , intricate design out there . Everything I look at has a major design to it . There's a little fusion world of atomic activity in everything you see Mm-hmm . Why , why is it there ? That's the question you should ask . Why am I here ? What is the reason for our existence ? These are the greatest questions a man can ask , and it drives you to investigate .
Speaker 2Well , you'll never find any facts that will justify any particular point of view well I disagree with that , but go ahead . Okay , you're Title , but the largest growing segment of our population , the fastest growing are the Undecided spiritually . I don't know if you've read any of these studies .
Speaker 2Yeah , they're called nuns , right , like they don't apply themselves to any specific group organization when it comes to this . And I think they're not necessarily atheists , and this is where it's starting to get confusing . They just don't want to admit that it's possible to know , and so they don't try to pretend they know . And I think you know , some people might actually be atheists , or . But to me that's the opposite of saying I just don't know . An atheist is like I know , there's how right , it's a big universe , bro .
Speaker 1You sure about that ? What facts ?
Speaker 2you have no facts , just like they may not have facts to prove what they believe , but you believe something , obviously , if you're taking that path . But the , the big group are the unknowns , the people that just say I don't know that , we are meant to know this and I'm not willing To just make up something in my mind , and so they don't yeah , they're not , they're not stick .
Speaker 1I don't know and I I don't know and I don't really care .
Speaker 2I think that's interesting , that that's the largest growing group , and I know in our country I don't know about the rest of the world .
Speaker 1Well , I know in in like Africa , the African continent , the , the , believe it or not , the Christian church is exploding across the continent . In Africa , in Africa right now , it's absolutely exploding . There is a . There's a secret Underground church in China , believe it or not where it's illegal to have a church there . They're growing like crazy and you see , it's the , it's the secret church , so the home church thing . So there is it's very different here , or let me just say it's very different in the West .
Speaker 2I think it's because we have that luxury right . Luxury is we're dying our luxuries , we're luxuriating ourselves to death , that's a book that's a really good book , by the way anywhere where there's human suffering it it does make sense that religion would flourish in the place , because they need something to get them through that painful suffering or I .
Speaker 1That's one opinion . I get that . I Understand that .
Speaker 2But because it's people . Those people are gonna be extremely more receptive because they need something to latch on to to get through this difficult stuff .
Speaker 1Well , that's right and you know , I , I understand what you're saying . For me , it would be more like there is an actual , there's an actual being behind it , calling people to himself through it . I see , as opposed to a coping mechanism . Uh right , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I agree with that .
Speaker 1Yeah , Vladimir Lenin said that it's the opium religion is the opium of the masses . What he meant was is that it's not . He was an atheist . It's not real , but they cling to good right .
Speaker 1They cling to it because they're afraid of being eaten by lions . So they make up a God in their mind , yeah , which isn't actually there , and everybody's happy because of it . You know , and I think it was Freud who kind of took it to the next level and on that , but I don't know . You guys can correct me if I'm wrong here . And , by the way , all of these , all this discussion , kind of stuff that we're doing , is this , you guys know , you guys who listen to us no , this is this is how we do it , this is how you , if you disagree , please email us and let us know how and why you disagree , because that's that's what we're all about here , man .
Speaker 2Yeah , I found the email from that brother . Oh , yeah , yeah and I'll tell you what his name is . He was commenting on episode 21 , which was the most recent one , that's lessons for the master major degree , part four . Apparently we had a discussion about Batman and His name's Joe Sue Romero . He's one of our top fans . Nice , he said great episode , my brothers looking forward to the next one . Just a few things I'd like to point out . First , george Clooney did in fact play Batman .
Speaker 2Oh see attached photos schooled . And then he went on to talk about the beauty of our craft and the internet apprentice degree , and then he sent some pictures of George Clooney on playing Batman .
Speaker 1Nice , I'm gonna have to go watch it . When he says send us your messages .
Speaker 2Tell us if you disagree , like that's a great way , just yeah , just do it .
Speaker 1and and , by the way , good catch brother , good catch . Yeah , it's that easy , yep , just send a Facebook message these days .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't get them . The Facebook messages , those go directly to Chris .
Speaker 1I don't know why . Yeah , I don't know why .
Speaker 2I get them .
Speaker 1Yeah , I don't get them .
Speaker 2I don't know why , but I gotta be in logged in Facebook as on the level . And then you'll see them . Yeah , I know , technology is fun .
Speaker 1I started out . You know , my Facebook problem is is that I think I have like two or three Facebook accounts out there that I don't know about and it , it , it doesn't . Let me do anything now until I figure out how to get out there and Delete those you know . You better figure that out . I don't whatever , yeah , I'm not , I'm 60 years old .
Speaker 2I have an excuse , so I don't get me wrong . I focus on this magic box and I'll focus on that magic box and together we'll figure this out . I'll do the hardware , you do the software . Figure the hardware out like , yeah , where do I plug stuff in ? There's holes , wires and gadgets and box . Yeah .
Speaker 1I love them .
Speaker 2I don't know . All right , let's get back to .
Speaker 1let's get back to the actual reason we're here today .
Speaker 2Solomon's temple .
Speaker 1Solomon's temple , the . The symbolism of the temple for a free mason is founded upon the concept of man himself as a living temple for the enthronement of God within each of us . Yeah based upon that beautiful passage in the Pauline letter to the Corinthians .
Speaker 2Is that a Gnostic view ?
Speaker 1No no . Gnostic view . Yeah , explain that we are God . God is inside of us , not in no , no , gut , well , in the , in the little bit of Gnosticism in that statement in , in , in the , in the Christian sense , and that's what this is referring to . This is very very .
Speaker 1Christian , because he's talking about a Pauline letter to the Corinthians , which is in second Corinthians . Know you not that ye are the temple of God and that the spirit of God dwells in you ? So what he's talking about there is that we're not . We're not God , although we are a mago day . We are created in the image of God . We are not gods ourselves . God , the Holy Spirit dwells within the believer for the purpose of Transformation that's a Christian statement very .
Speaker 1Christian statement right here . And it's you know , and and we have to be honest about that you know , free masonry borrows a Lot of its imagery and a lot of its writings from the Jewish and Christian faith . It just does . There's just no way around that . So there , these kind of references come up all the time . It's one of the things that got as a Christian , I mean it was . It was . One of the things that got me interested in is like wow there , I mean the more I relate to some of it .
Speaker 1I can relate totally to any of those scriptural references I can relate to . I've studied it for so many years . You know which is amazing I it doesn't preach or it does free masonry doesn't preach Christianity and it is not a Christian faith .
Speaker 2There is no religion . It bar .
Speaker 1It borrows from the symbolism of it , yeah , which which I find ? I find absolutely fascinating , but it's not a religion . All right , we say it all the time free masonry is not a religion , or is it a political viewpoint ? There are religious people in free masonry . There are spiritual and religious men within our fraternity . Hopefully all of them and hope and all of them and and job right .
Speaker 1Hopefully , all of them are willing to share with each other for the benefit of knowledge and education , with gentleness and respect , for so that we can all grow . We can all grow in where we're , where we're going in this journey together .
Speaker 2There's a lot of other Cultural groups represented in free masonry here , other than Christianity and Judaism , you will find some Egyptian things , right and hermetic things in the system and Gnostic in nature , and I think we should do future podcasts on that .
Speaker 1I would be absolutely thrilled to do that . Do you know what ?
Speaker 2hermeticism is , or the founder Hermes Tremegistus . Have you heard of that ?
Speaker 1I don't know enough about it .
Speaker 2Okay , then we definitely got to do a podcast , but you know that I will dive deeply into it , because we just talked about it .
Speaker 1buckle up , it's coming , it's yeah . Absolutely . I think , I think , and then I think Brother Wade Botkin is always talking about cabal cabala . Yeah as well , mystical the right which is kind of a thing as well , which I've looked into a little bit . I find it fascinating as well , and again , just because we're discussing it Doesn't mean you have to buy into it , right ?
Speaker 2what it means , though , is that you should doesn't hurt your brain to have the knowledge that it exists .
Speaker 1Well , if you truly know what you believe and why you believe it , it should sharpen you right and make you better . You know . And if there is things you need to change and adjust in your , in your thinking and believing , then do so . You know , be open To it . You know I am , I'm completely open . I have not yet found anything To convince me to make any kind of spiritual changes in my belief structure , but you shouldn't in Freemasonry .
Speaker 2It's not enticing you to do that exactly , that's exactly right .
Speaker 1But the beauty of it is is having these great conversations with other brothers . I think is just one of the joys of life , yeah , and it just really enhances relationships and and just just your own , your own knowledge base in life . I can have conversations with people , based on conversations I've had with brother Mason's about their faith . Now yeah , good training , I know yeah right , I know stuff now that I didn't know before about other other faith traditions and things like yeah . And it's only because open discussion .
Speaker 2Yeah , and we can talk like that without the fear of offense or , you know , anger coming into it , and I think that's great training wheels for life , because then at some point we're gonna meet someone who challenges us and it's provoking and you already know how to deal with the situation .
Speaker 1That's right , you know how to talk calmly about that .
Speaker 2That's right or walk away . If they're not capable of Talking in that way with you , then it's not a conversation you should be happy .
Speaker 1It's not worth your time I . Think just the fact that I've seen a lot of men who were unable to Sit down and have conversations now . They want to fight and they want to fight , but are now able to . They're learning to because we , we've kind of created that culture in the Lodge yes where you have .
Speaker 1If you're gonna talk about anything , you have to do it with gentleness and respect , yeah , for the other person . That's because we're grown men and we're masons . That's what we're supposed to do , you know , and I think that lesson alone is is worth the price of admission , because we don't know how to disagree with each other in this country , you know .
Speaker 2It's that the kink in a little down if you can't create it , the right versus left .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know , lie out there where really it's just all of us , you know , and then it's them on the top , but , and they're the ones creating the fight between the two of us as they continue to pilfer and pillage . You know , all of our goods . Our power is together , that's right people . That's right . There's no political Agenda or issue that should separate me from a fellow countryman . It just shouldn't happen it I ?
Speaker 2there are people out there who hate me because of my , my political position , me too , right , and it's like , as they heard or saw something that makes them think they know who I am because of that one bit of information they have about me , right ? They can extrapolate everything else based on that cuz right ? That's where we're at today . Is you're either ? You're either red piece or a blue piece on the chessboard right ?
Speaker 1Yeah , if you're not that color , you're the enemy . Yeah , and all the while , you know those who created this ridiculous game . Oh , I , are Continuing to become billionaires , you know , and , and , and world leaders and all this . But this is a solution to that . This is we can make sure he has a way out learn the skills to cooperate and work together Despite our differences .
Speaker 2Yeah , if we can do that , if we can carry this out into the population , we truly will have done something great for humanity .
Speaker 1I agree , all right . 5.16 . We'll finish up with this .
King Solomon's Reign and Legacy
Speaker 1Solomon , king of Israel . Solomon was the son of David and Bathsheba . Great story .
Speaker 1He was born . He was born about nine nine hundred ninety seven BC and became king in 977 , reigning 40 years . He died in 937 BC . In the history of the Hebrew people , the reign of Solomon stands out as one of One in which the greatest power , prosperity and recognition of that nation was achieved . The name Solomon means peaceful and his reign was one of peace . So , yeah , king Solomon represents A time , the pinnacle , yeah , prosperity and influence throughout the world . There was no other more wealthy , prosperous and influential nation on the planet At that time . I mean , they were absolutely , you know , blessed in every way .
Speaker 1They had money and land and women Apparently the women okay , he had a lot of wives . He had . He had too many wives . More than two would be more than any . Yes , more than one , Sorry , would be a problem . I can't handle the one I have . I couldn't imagine . Could you imagine having two or three ? How about six hundred ?
Speaker 2Oh sure , I mean , you know , I guess it's like kids after three , it's like what's the difference , you know ? You can't manage that many anyways , it's all chaos .
Speaker 1I can't manage the one I have are you kidding me .
Speaker 2Anyways , he that's because she's managing you the well , that which I'm okay with that .
Speaker 1I'm actually okay with that . I I need , somebody needs to manage this mess .
Speaker 2You need somebody to help you in your life and someone the challenges use the best kind of somebody to bring into your life . Agreed , agreed and help you change , which is the hardest thing to do , and you'll probably do it if it's somebody that you truly care about Trying to get you to do that .
Speaker 1That's right .
Speaker 2But was not he the wisest is not , he was the wise for his wisdom .
Speaker 1His wisdom was given to him by God and it's , it's in the book of . I want to say Samuel Could be in Kings , but he was . He was Ordained by God to be the one to build the temple . His father , david , was said no , it ain't you too much blood on your hands ?
Speaker 2It will be your son . I got ripped off .
Speaker 1No , no , he didn't . David , david , completely , was like yep , you're right , he . And it was given over to his son , solomon . And God said to him get , tell me what you want and I will give you . I'll give you whatever you want . You're the , you're the one that I have anointed to build , to build the temple and to be the king . What do you want ? He said I need wisdom . I'm a kid , I'm just a child . I don't know what I'm doing . I'm gonna need wisdom . And God said well , because you didn't ask for , you know , all of these trinkets and cheap stuff , but asked for wisdom to guide the people , I'm gonna give you all of it .
Speaker 1So he gave him not only wisdom , but gave him riches , wealth and power and influence because of his humility , was the reason why he was given all of those things , and Then he , he went on to be a great king . So , and his escapades are not only written in scripture , they're also . There are other extra biblical .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Text about his life and and the things that he did and some of the systems that he set up are still in place today and the ideas and concepts , the reason why gold is still valuable today and considered Intrinsic money Not like our dollar bill , which is currency very different is because of King Solomon used that as the standard of wealth In he established it was already a standard of wealth , but he established it as the global , universal representation of wealth . Yeah , so the gold itself is worth he said the gold standard .
Speaker 1He set the gold standard . Now , like with every man , every great man has been given a great task . His great riches , a power and influence Caused him to begin to stumble and fall away , and he did , in fact , fall away from his original charter , but he never , he never let down the people . The man never , never , let down the people , but he did . In fact , his sons and Grandsons and great-grandsons went further and further , down , and down , and down and down , until finally it was all taken From them by the king of the Babylonians , nebuchadnezzar . So it's the same story
The Struggles and Triumphs of Success
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1Yeah same story , isn't it ? Yeah , I mean , if you look at , I've known lots of men , good men , who started companies and , and , and they got successful . And I watched him go from driving an old junkie pickup truck to driving brand new , you know thousand ten , twenty , thirty , eighty thousand dollar trucks with offices and shops and employees . And then , the next thing , you know , you hear the guys in jail because he's been doing drugs and doing prostitutes and falling away and his wife's leaving them and the kids are all angry . It's like , and I've seen it , yeah , we've all seen it , we've all heard it , it happens , and , and the reason why is because if you don't guard your heart Yep , you know , you got you have to guard your heart and it doesn't matter who you are a man , woman , and anytime , if you don't guard your heart against these things , you will always , you will always fall away .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think the more wealthy and powerful . Many guess it's easy to hate on people that are wealthy and powerful , but it seems like they at some point start to believe all the yes men that are , yes , menning them right . Yeah , at some point they just choose to make that their worldview . I am a genius or I am a deity , everything I think is awesome and they buy that , and then that's it right that downhill slope comes so fast at that point .
Speaker 1Yeah , that natural man takes over .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's all about self self-implode , because no one can survive that way . You have to be humble , no matter how , and that's what I love to see . I love to see people that didn't come from wealth get wealth and Sure , maybe they stumble for a minute because it's like so difficult to adjust , and , yeah , maybe they get into drugs or something and absorbed , but then eventually snap out of and go .
Speaker 1What am I doing ?
Speaker 2This is not doing this humble young guy or this poor person from wherever I just happen to have some money and then they live the rest of their life like in In place where we all want to get to , where you use it for something good , and they get involved in charities and they try to help as many people as they can and typically , because we're people , we only focus on things that have affected us . Yeah , I my mom had this cancer , so I'm gonna focus on that . Or my brother had this issue , so I'm gonna focus on that . Or I have An issue , so that's my thing that I'm gonna focus on yeah , I'm .
Speaker 1I was thinking while you were talking there about Robert Downey Jr . Yeah , yeah , this story , you know he was absolutely on his way to dying from drugs , drugs and alcohol use .
Speaker 2I mean , he was an absolute reprobate but see , he didn't come from nothing , right .
Speaker 1He had parents that were kind of affluent .
Speaker 2Oh , absolutely , yeah , he was born into it , so he never developed any coping mechanisms in his whole life right , it was up in that time . It was handed to him there was no choice , he was done , yeah Well , like King Solomon .
Speaker 1Yeah , King Solomon was in line , was a kingly line man he was . You know his father was the greatest king that that was ever known . Yeah , Israel ever knew the warrior king , the lion of the tribe of Judah . You know that was , that was him and that was his dad . You know and he was in line to be the king say , I'm not saying that Robert Downey Jr Is that great . He's great actor . I dig the guy .
Speaker 2Well , he survived it right .
Speaker 1But he totally survived it .
Speaker 2He made a choice . His contemporary , some of them didn't make it like River Phoenix , right yeah . I just overdosed . Yep , crazy partying . Yeah and what is wisdom If not the accumulation of mistakes ? He's lucky enough to have aged out of it , and once you make those mistakes and you learn lessons from them , you become wise right , yeah .
Speaker 2And and people don't realize the wisest person is the person who survived the most mistakes . They're the most damaged and scarred probably , yeah , I , but they made it , and so they deserve to be revered for their wisdom , I think , even though they've done bad stuff .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think he must have got to a point and I can say this in my own life too where you know why should I be unhappy ? In other words , everybody who goes through these struggles I'm not everybody , but most of the people that go through these struggles and I've counseled , as a chaplain , a lot of guys along these lines is that I would ask them the question , you know , do you think that you're just as eligible for happiness as anybody else If you're sitting in a city bus with a bunch of strangers ? Are you more or less eligible or worthy ?
Speaker 1of happiness than the people who are in that bus ? And the answer is you're just as eligible and or worthy of it . You're no less or more worthy of it . So why do you continue to trash your life as if it's not worth fighting for ? And these are the questions that must be answered Somewhere along the line . Robert Downey Jr answered that question and he said well , my life is worth fighting for , worth working for because
Authenticity and Real Relationships Importance
Speaker 1of .
Speaker 1A , b and C and very rare , very rare . I can tell you that from experience . He actually did it and I've counseled . I used to do chaplain work in the Sarasota County Jail and I've counseled countless young men in that place and I honestly , hundreds of young men I would say probably 12 , a dozen of them actually took it to heart and made changes in their lives and actually did it . It is so hard .
Speaker 2I don't know how we got off on this , but I'm glad we did . 20% of them maybe can get out of it . Some of the percentage are going to die . Yeah , oh yeah , I've seen it or become homeless and destitute and then die or get into crime .
Speaker 1You know , because Get stuck in the system so deeply that they're never going to get out .
Speaker 2Yeah , I was just watching a documentary on Netflix about a very , very popular musician who's from England . Yeah , this guy is a really unattractive guy . Yeah , he's kind of really out of shape and not a good looking guy , right but he sings like an angel and I'd heard his music . I had no idea who he was or what his story was . And this guy comes from nothing in England , like legit nothing , and he had anxiety , like most people do , and he became rich so fast , so popular , so fast . Yikes that he's working on a second album and he's having a nervous breakdown .
Speaker 1Oh no .
Speaker 2And his critics are exceeding to the point where he's having practically seizures and you know he's not able to think or sleep and he has to take like half a year off to focus on his mental health . And so the first time in his life he talks to therapists and realizes , yeah , my grandma died . Really young . I had this trauma . That's affected me and I'm always thinking and depressed about death but outwardly all he projects is humor and his family's like I don't get it . He's such a happy go lucky kid .
Speaker 1Right right .
Speaker 2He's putting on a show for you .
Speaker 1Right , that's his coping mechanism . He doesn't want you to see what he's dealing with , right .
Speaker 2And then the fame and the fortune and all that just exacerbates what's already there . And now he's going around telling everybody like , yeah , I have severe anxiety , I have imposter syndrome . He's probably the best modern musician making music today .
Speaker 1No kidding Wow .
Speaker 2It's crazy and I'm like telling my wife like this isn't crazy . This is how everyone feels it's just he doesn't have a lifetime of influence stopping him from saying it the truth , right right , right , like most of them do . Most of them want you to think they don't have any problems . Right , they're not everything's fine .
Speaker 1Like .
Speaker 2Robert Downey Jr doesn't want you to know . He probably relapses now and then . Right , right he probably falls off the wagon , he probably has fits of depression . But those aren't stories you're going to see in the paper or read about , because it's not inspirational , but it's the truth .
Speaker 1Everybody struggles . That's right All of us struggle .
Speaker 2So I love to see these people who now everybody's looking at this guy and like , oh my God , this is shocking . It's not shocking . This is the human experience Put on display for all of us to see .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2We should take lessons from that , like learning how to cope with these negative thoughts and feelings is going to be the . It's going to be the fight of your life . Probably it's . We all are broken . What you said is is so true ?
Speaker 1It comes down to that being honest , you know , being dreadfully honest with yourself , which makes it real easy to be honest with the general public , you know , because you can just open up , because this is I , this is what I discovered about myself , and if I had not discovered it I'd be dead . You know , and and people , you know , people are attracted to that . But it's true . The media persona is this this Madison Avenue sales job perfection right .
Speaker 1We're supposed to have and if you go on that ridiculous TikTok , which is just ridiculous to me , I , I I Chinese buy up whatever it is , it's stupid , um , but you can see all of this , this , this phony facade that's out there , you know .
Speaker 1But if you have personal relationships and the point I was trying to make is that the difference between the virtual relationships , which are fake- from the very core and personal relationships with those few people in your life that you can be real with is that's the difference Is you see those flaws . You see those constant flaws all the time in their , in their lives and you can be honest with each other about them and help each other about them .
Speaker 1That's why we were talking earlier about this new generation of people who are putting the phones down and going outside and and building relationships and and all this stuff . They're going to find that benefit . They're going to . They're going to find that . I hope that . I hope that's the trend that's going , you know , in the West , you know , in hopes for the , for the younger generation , because , because it's , it's just an absolute shit show out there with regard to all that . You know , because the virtual lie is just that , it's a lie , it's an absolute lie and it's designed to . It kills you , it kills creativity , it kills love .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1It kills . All of those things are are destroyed by that entire , that entire lie and it and I'm , I'm over it . I'm a 60 year old man .
Speaker 2Nobody's listening to me , but I think that there's a movement of people probably that are very interested in that .
Speaker 1I agree , we talked about that earlier . You're right , they're out there .
Speaker 2Maybe television society has been feeding you this dream of a life .
Speaker 1Yeah , buy more product . You know , be the consumer , it'll fix your problem . It'll fix your problem .
Speaker 2If you have this dishwashing detergent you'll have . Your marriage will be fantastic .
Speaker 1Yeah Right , dishwashing soap .
Speaker 2It's like the next thing to buy is going to solve all your problems . Yeah , it's not . It hasn't been in for a long time in style to address hard decisions and acting virtuous in a virtuous way . That hasn't been for a long time something we've concerned ourselves with , and I think we might be getting to a point where there could be a renaissance happening , where people just want real and they're kind of fed up with all the bullshit and the fake .
Speaker 1I hope so .
Speaker 2The glitzy , glamoury stuff . I mean , you know , like kids we're fascinated because we never had it , like that's what happens , the things you don't have in your childhood you obsess over as adults .
Speaker 1Right , but these kids didn't have freedom .
Speaker 2They never had real freedom . They've never really experienced real honest relationships with people , and so I think , as they grow up , that's what they're going to be desiring , is that thing that they didn't have when they were children , right . Right and I hope that is the case . I hope that's the case because that might save us .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think you know I don't know why I thought of this but the difference between playing a video game that that simulates riding a motorcycle , you know , and the difference of actually riding a motorcycle .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And I'm telling you right now , as somebody who used to race motocross growing up in high school , the difference you'll never go back .
Speaker 1You know if you could , if we if the more these young people get outside and do these things , these actual things again , instead of virtually experiencing them , the less likely they are to , the less likely they are to go back to them . You know to give them up , so that's lame . I spent how much time doing this and money Wait . You know I could be , I don't know . I don't know Learning how to do a sailboat . Right , you live in Sarasota .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1There's , there's groups out there that'll teach you how to you know how to operate a freaking sailboat , wouldn't that be cool , you know , or you could play a video game that simulates it .
Speaker 2You know you won't smell the saltwater .
Speaker 1Right yeah , breeze on your face , or right See ?
Speaker 2the dolphin breach next to you , while you're out there in the middle of nowhere .
Speaker 1I hope so . It's a lofty idea , but I see it Like I said one , my one son , he just gives me hope because he's got . He's got those stars in his eyes . Yeah , you know and I see guys like Kyle and you know , and Sean and you know , the younger guys in our , in our lodge man who are just like you know they're , they're they're wanting real experiences with real people .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And that that gives me hope . That's a seed man that's worth cultivating .
Speaker 2And they're , they're , they're a little more tolerant . Yeah Well , I hope so . Generation is .
Speaker 1Yeah , I hope so .
Speaker 2It's our generation with the divisiveness . I think theirs maybe isn't as much .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , I mean , the Western culture became this us and them mentality and again , I think the elites from the top down kind of fostered it , you know for their own agenda , but I don't . You know the church certainly didn't help .
Speaker 2You know they became anywhere men are involved , yeah , where you give them some power over other people .
Speaker 1It's social clubs , you know where , and but fine , you want to have a social club , but a social club with an open door , you know that's willing to go out and meet other social clubs , that's great , that's awesome . But when we become just a society of two social clubs that are opposed , to each other .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1You know , and and at all costs . You know , I don't , I don't hate you because of this . I hate you because of what you believe but I don't really know what you believe . I just know that you're , you're , you're , you're wearing a red hat and I'm wearing a blue hat , or you're wearing a blue hat and I'm wearing a red , you know ?
Speaker 2yeah .
Speaker 1And that's that's . I think more and more we got to stop eating .
Unfriending on Social Media and Masonic Events
Speaker 2I'm still unfriending people on social media Are you . I'm just for the things that they say . I thought I was done with that a couple of years ago , but no , I just saw something yesterday . Such a incredibly divisive thing .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Where you literally are just calling half of the population jackoffs .
Speaker 1Right , right , which is just ridiculous .
Speaker 2I'm like wait , brother , this doesn't make sense to me and I didn't unfriend right away because he's made it through this . Many not unfriending , and I hope that that raises awareness . When a brother says to you , this isn't really nice , you know , it's OK to have the idea , but you couldn't you express it in a more loving way than the , you know , aggressive device of one that you used to describe that and that's , you can't fix institutions , but you can fix people , hopefully , and then over time the institutions will be overrun by good people .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So free me some reason here to save society .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think in Aristotle's teaching on rhetoric he talks about the . You know and I this obviously came from Socrates in his teaching . But it's the things that you say . Are they necessary , are they truthful and are they helpful ? Are they necessary , truthful or helpful ? Because anything else is is you're wasting your time and the other person's time and you're not helping anybody . Is it necessary , truthful and helpful ?
Speaker 2I like that , you know and because it's a lot less if it's not necessary , truthful or right .
Speaker 1Yeah , there's a lot of nest unnecessary talking going on out there , but yeah you know , I think to the campfire discussion right , there were some people that were talking their heads off because , yeah , that's who they are .
Speaker 2And there were other people that might have said two things the entire night , and I tell you , when the that person was talking , I sat up and lean forward of my chair and turned my ear to hear every word that was said .
Speaker 1Right , exactly .
Speaker 2Something about the guy who talks less . What he says feels more important to me . I don't know why that is .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I know the brother you're talking about and he was observing and listening the entire time . Yeah , they'll totally engage and formulated a really good question and comment based on what he'd been , you know great example , listening , perfect example .
Speaker 2Words were so much more powerful because it wasn't just right , right , right , all right . Substance .
Speaker 1I think it was a pretty good discussion Overall . I don't know if we really went deep into the actual text there .
Speaker 2No , we did not .
Speaker 1I don't think . I don't think we needed to , and on this particular podcast , I thought it was a pretty , pretty good discussion , the directions we went in . What else is going on , man ?
Speaker 2So much is going on .
Speaker 1I know , I know so much is going on . Where do we start ?
Speaker 2I have a colonoscopy on Monday .
Speaker 1Let's not start there .
Speaker 2Okay , let's end with the that part .
Speaker 1Let's end with the colon .
Speaker 2Yeah , there's a lot going on . I mean we have we're in a crazy district . That's just so busy . I am in a fellow craft and an apprentice and master Mason degree in a couple of weeks we we did our first esoteric discussion night this past weekend , in just a few short days , we're going to be in Hillsborough Lodge for the Southeast Masonic Education Symposium at an all day event , speaking and on a panel discussion there . Next month will be at Grand Lodge . We will have a booth .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm excited about that . Do interviewing some people from the Grand Line ? Yeah , and you , if you want to come by and say , yeah , man .
Speaker 2Yeah , we will be busy . Okay , because we get in Sunday night and we're probably going to leave shortly after session on Tuesday because we have jobs we have to get back to right , yeah . And I'll be bringing my wife . I don't think you're not .
Speaker 1No , no , I was staying home , yep .
Speaker 2So , yeah , be very busy because I'm actually active . Right , I got to get my past master's degree , I got , we got to do all the voting and stuff on Tuesday . But , that being said , if you , if you email us at Chris on the level of Fred and Chris , or Fred at on the level of Fred and Chriscom . Between now and then we can set up a time ahead of time , or maybe we can get together with you , for it doesn't need to be long .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And just get you on on the show , or , if not , just come by the booth and shake our hand and say , hi , yeah , we'd love that .
Speaker 1That would be great , nothing else yeah .
Speaker 2And give us any suggestions you have to improve or any stories you have . But the main thing is we just want to meet people , so please don't hesitate to come by and say hi when you see the booth at Grand Lodge .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's going to be an exciting time , and then , of course , that will cap our first season one so that'll be the cap of season one We'll put I mean it'll always be out there . It's always going to be out there on the Internet . It lasts forever and then we'll begin . We'll begin season two , Probably going to try to update our some of our formatting and stuff .
Speaker 2We'll see we'll see how it goes . Making commitments .
Speaker 1One of the things we're never going to do is change the way Chris and I interact on this podcast and the things that we talk about , which are always going to be pro 100 percent , moving masonry to the next level , to the next level and on and on to that next level .
Speaker 2That's what we'll be talking about at the education symposium . That's right . So what now ? What now ?
Speaker 1Where are we going ? You know some of the some of the issues that have been identified with this sudden growth that masonry has been going through , and then we're going to offer a few solutions along the way . Yeah , I'm , I'm really looking forward to this .
Speaker 2I can't wait to hear the discussion . Yeah , that's going to come from this .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's going to be , it's going to be great . It's going to be a lot of fun to meet some people again .
Speaker 2That's going to be nice . Yeah , I think from out of state . I think they come from all over the Southeast . So , brother Negi in person , who we've been talking to for a better part of a year now .
Speaker 1Definitely excited to shake his hand . Absolutely , man , that's going to be great . I'm kind of excited about that . Yeah , so you know , life , life just goes on , man . I got a busy month ahead of me , I'm going on a cruise on your wife situation update on the wife situation . She is , she's , she's great , she's doing really really good health wise . You know , like a she was a professional musician . She's saying in a , in a musical band , she has decided to retire .
Speaker 2Oh , permanently . I thought yeah , well , until further notice .
Speaker 1She went and did one which wore her out completely and then they asked her to do one the next day in the afternoon and she went and she came home early and she's like I can't do this . So good , good on her . You know putting her , her her health first . Yeah , you know . I know it's something she loves to do and something she's very , very good at . So that's a shame . But you know you got to , you know you get . We make decisions in life . You know that . You know we got grandchildren and I do . I told her I don't want . How do I explain to our grandchildren that you ain't coming no more ? You know that you have to go away .
Speaker 2How do I do that ? It's like , yeah , so you got to make some choices .
Speaker 1She made the right choice because she's a smart woman . She married me after all .
Speaker 2And so she got smart later in life .
Speaker 1Got it . So , yeah , update on the wife doing great , we're moving forward . You know I'm homeopathic , natural healing . They've given her all kinds of drugs and that at all this stuff . We're having a little controversy there but I will prevail because there's nothing better than good , nutritious food for medicine , as my opinion . But anyway , yeah , doing good there . Busy month coming up . I've got motor core . We've got our first competition coming up early in the month . I got a cruise . I'm going on . And then we got Grand Lodge . When is the cruise ? I don't remember . Middle of the month , middle of the month , free , free cruise . For every year the place I work at gives us a free five day cruise . I'm pretty excited about that .
Speaker 2That'll be relaxing . Well , we'll see about that Next week is my anniversary .
Speaker 1Oh nice , how many years .
Speaker 2So we four , married four , but living together for more like eight .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2So I just realized this over the weekend and we threw together a Key West trip .
Speaker 1Oh , nice Wednesday . I'm headed down to Key West . Love me some Key West yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , actually , last night planned a fellow craft practice with Phoenix Lodge and I have to now text them and let them know . I forgot to tell you I'm actually going to be out of town for that I can't make it . That's what I'm saying . It's so busy it's hard to find time for everything .
Speaker 1Right , Right , yeah . So I'm going to be a master of 147 and as active as you are in the craft throughout the district . That makes sense . I mean you have to . You're working your schedule every day .
Speaker 2Yeah , you're on it every day . Yeah , it's crazy how much this is going on between the master Mason .
Speaker 1Association and it this time next year it won't be as busy .
Speaker 2Oh my God , I'll be in . Nobody has been known . My phone won't be ringing off the hook .
Speaker 1Well , hopefully you and I will be busy doing speaking engagements and podcast stuff .
Speaker 2That'd be fun .
Speaker 1That'd be a lot of fun . I would , I would too , I would too .
Speaker 2I want to get out there and meet .
Speaker 1I want to meet every single Mason in this state man . I want to get out there and visit every lodge and get to know as many active Masons as I possibly can you know , this year and next . I think that would be a great goal for the two of us to accomplish , you know .
Speaker 2I think we're in the right place . Yeah , I agree , at the right time .
Speaker 1I agree and again , you know folks listening , you guys know we started this podcast . It was based on an idea and a conversation that Chris and I had , and the response that you guys have given us is overwhelming . Our promise to you , once again , is to always keep it . Keep it real . You know we're just going to , we're going to tell the truth from the heart and we're always going to be about furthering the cause of our craft . Yeah , in this community , in the state , in this country , in this world , you know we're trying to be the best possible version of free Mason that we can .
Speaker 2We can be right in our lives personally and that's not always going to be perfect . But you know we're trying and I think that's what matters . That's right . We're making an effort and we are very good Masons . We try to be industrious and useful to the craft . So , yes , we have a podcast and yes , we're working on other stuff to maybe even help in other ways .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's right . With the craft , that's right . We'll talk about more in the future . If any of it comes through , if any of it actually happens , we'll see how it goes . If it's going , it's going well .
Speaker 2So that's all I got , brother .
Speaker 1What about ? I think we're an hour and a half in . We're trying to bump our time to an hour and a half . We're at an hour and 22 . I'm good with that . What do you say ?
Speaker 2I feel great about it . So what do you think ? We got one more Master Mason session .
Speaker 1I'm not going to say , not going to say Could ?
Speaker 2be several more .
Speaker 1Who knows , let's just keep going until we're done . How about ?
Speaker 2that .
Speaker 1Okay , yeah , so just send us your emails Let us know what you think .
Future Podcasts and Educational Focus
Speaker 1Suggestions for future podcasts Once we get through Master Mason , we're going to be open to suggestions to start digging into some topics that are probably a little more current event kind of stuff and current needs within the craft and stuff . But we'll see .
Speaker 2We'll see what comes out of Grand Lodge . I'm curious to see what's important to them and what they want to focus on .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely Absolutely so . The graphic teaching out of the Mentor's Manual has been our most successful podcast content .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1You guys have told us over and over again this is really what you guys like . So we're definitely going to always focus on that the educational part of it , and encouraging you to take that education back to your lodge and become the guy . Yeah , that guy within your lodge . So be on the level man , Be a levelhead out there on your side . So that's all I got , brother . Until next time , man , I will , I'll yak at you then , yak , see you then .
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