Speaker 1: 0:11

you've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join on the level podcast as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the mysteries, dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of freemasonry to unlock the greatness within each of us. I have you now Welcome back to another episode of On the Level Podcast. We have a great episode today. We have a very special guest, a good friend of mine, brother Kevin Oatman of Manatee Lodge number 31 in Bradenton, Florida. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Thank you, brother, it's an honor.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 2: 1:11

I've been looking forward to this, so I'm glad we're able to find the time to be able to get together and talk.

Speaker 1: 1:17

You're a busy guy. You've got a lot going on.

Speaker 2: 1:22

I do, yes, I do?

Speaker 1: 1:23

I want to talk about that.

Speaker 2: 1:24

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:25

I'll tell people probably don't know your name listening all over the world in Freemasonry, but they will. Brother Oatman joined, I want to say like two years ago, does that sound?

Speaker 2: 1:37

right, it was 2021, early. Yeah yeah, yeah. I became a nurse in 2020, but I actually got in about, I think, 21. Yes, right after COVID.

Speaker 1: 1:50

I think I had the. I think I had the honor of doing at least one, if not two, of your lectures for you. You have that and that's what you know.

Speaker 2: 2:00

again, that's where I was introduced to you Again that's where I was introduced to you? Yeah, Of course from that point on. I've been inspired for what you've been doing, and what you do and how you hold yourself up, so that's really, really yes, Thank you. I love you.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Yes, sir, you've been a good friend and a lot of help to me as I was finishing up in my lodge. So, yeah, greatly appreciated. It's just odd to be at the beginning of somebody's journey and mine is kind of like waxed and waned and now I get to sit back and watch guys like you really start to blossom in the lodge and become leaders. It's really something to watch. It really is you guys, you in particular because you're're very intense person, I guess is the best way to say it. I feel like you. Really, when you latch onto something, you go for it all the way Is that, fair to say, my family was military.

Speaker 2: 3:01

So with that and part of you know most of that regulations and stuff that I'm just if you do something you don't have to do it, you do it 100, you do it right, and then you know my mindset is to go 110, 120, so uh it doesn't, matter what I do and you're aware of all the things that I'm, you know, involved with and you can, I think I only know I do and you're aware of all the things that I'm involved with.

Speaker 1: 3:25

And I think I only know some of the things you're involved with, and it's already pretty impressive what I know.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Well, thanks, I mean.

Speaker 1: 3:32

I'd like to cover some of that, actually because people should know your background. It's a small town in Sarasota where we both lived and you still live in that area. We both lived and you still live in that area Because I was in the automotive industry and had a friend that I met at a convention who said I should come and try this F3 Nation thing one day. And you know who I'm talking about. He works for Gettle Automotive.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Group.

Speaker 1: 4:03

I won't say his name and embarrass him here, but he's a very good man and he talked to me for a while and convinced me to do it. And I went at five in the morning and there's this group of guys just killing themselves, jogging burpees, running up and down hills. I mean we were doing sit-ups and push-ups. It was like intense. I was like a pile of like dog food at the end of that thing and I was just sweating. And then they throw you in the middle and they start asking you all these questions and they give you your cool name. So I went through the whole thing. Then I came to find out you were part of that after I met you and now I see all the time online and then I'm looking behind you and I can see you're obviously a very fit person into personal fitness. So maybe you could just explain a little bit. What is F3 Nation? Let's start there.

Speaker 2: 5:01

So first. I want to ask you what was your name, what was your F3 name then? So I'm Comic-Con. Okay, that's it. Okay, that's right.

Speaker 2: 5:09

So, F3 Nation is a men's workout group. At first it started out as nationwide, started in North Carolina, but it has grown so much in the last 10, 11 years that it's now international. So basically it's a workout group for men. It's free and it's held outside all the time and we've got five core principles. But one reason why we require it to be outside is because we want it to be accessible to any man, whether you're rich or poor, whether you're minority or anything. Being outside allows that person to have that access. Should we be inside, then you may have to get a membership or you have to be in a community or something, but by doing it outside, rain or shine, that gives access to any of the men.

Speaker 2: 6:03

So we call it f3 because of the three F's, which is fitness, fellowship and faith, and pretty much the faith part of it is pretty much like masonry. We have to have, in a way, you know, some form of belief of, you know some spiritual belief, but I assume where we are in Florida it's like masonry. It's mostly Christian probably.

Speaker 1: 6:41

We do, we have our fitness.

Speaker 2: 6:42

You know it's just. You know we just have a faith and a lot of us, you know, close it with the prayer, but we do have brothers and packs who close it with just a spiritual saying or something like that. It's not an obligation, but you know those three F's tie it in. So it connects us and to us, it improves us and makes us better as men, pretty much similar to what the Masons do. Yeah, the purpose of it is to improve ourselves and who we are as men. It makes us better. It makes people better husbands. It makes us better spouses, you know, better leaders you know, yeah, your wife is going to.

Speaker 1: 7:22

Your significant other is going to like you a lot more if you're svelte and lean. You guys are definitely. I mean I saw the one time I went. I might have gone twice. I think Bing's father was there. So there's like we're talking about people in their 70s working out with guys in their 20s.

Speaker 2: 7:40

Correct. Yeah, so you could go out there, like the other day the morning when I was out there, we had a young guy who's 18 years old, but he was doing the same thing as everybody else as well, as we also had someone who was 74 years old. So, of course, living here in Sarasota, the demographics is just how do I say with respect a little bit of older age graphic.

Speaker 1: 8:10

But what it is? Florida is the place that old people go to die. That's what it is.

Speaker 2: 8:15

Well, that's what we've got the reputation for. But I was just at one of my runs this morning and the group that I'm involved with my running I've got 70 and 60 year old people out there running with me. So when I have some of my other older friends say, no, I can't do that, that's not possible. I wish I don't see that, because I'm around people who are 60s, 70s and even 80s who are out there.

Speaker 2: 8:47

No, they're not running 15, 20, 30 miles like some of the younger runners and some of the athletes are, however, at least they're out there and they're doing something and they're active. So you can't let age dictate what you can and can't do, and it's just like with masonry you can't let age or anything stop you from where you want to go Through my travels, you know, while I've pretty much considered to a lot younger a younger mason within my last three, three and a half four years in my travels I've seen leaders coming out of masonry as young as 20, 25 years old all the way up to 80 and something, so you can't let age define who you are and what you're capable of absolutely as long as you're alive.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Yeah, the fight continues. Yes, now I'm very aware of your background and all I see are medals, and I know that you run marathons. Are these all from different marathons that you've run?

Speaker 2: 9:56

They are Now. You can't see them. They're all the way around the room. One good credit about it is I've been running since high school, so it's not a new thing. So these have accumulated over the years, you know over the last 30, 40 years wow, how old are you now, if you me? Asking. So in july I will hit the double nickels. I'll be 55 55.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Yes, you've been running since. For over 30 years now I've been running since high school, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:27

So I started running cross country. As most people know, I'm a small guy, so of course I was too small to go. I went out for a freshman football and the coach said nope, you're too small and you think I'm small now? I was really small when I was in high school. And you think I'm small Now? I was really small when I was in high school. So the only thing that really that involved athleticism or activities that I could really be good at was running.

Speaker 1: 10:59

So I jumped in there and started my cross-country career with high school and kept going since then. It still seems like it'd be harder for a shorter person than for a taller person. Like you know a tall guy, you'd think you'd have a bigger stride. Make it easier for him.

Speaker 2: 11:09

It's funny because the other day at work, you know, someone says, kevin, you walk too fast. It's like it's because I have to. You know, all my life I've had to keep up with tall people like you. Yes, my stride's a little bit faster, but yeah it is. But I think it's more of the effort and, you know, in the long run it benefited me because putting more effort into those strides, whether it's walking or running, it just built up that endurance. And you know that's what you know I pride myself with, my run is the endurance part.

Speaker 1: 11:43

You're so well-rounded. It's fascinating, because this is something that our fraternity is lacking, I think. We are very, very good on focusing on the internal of a man but not so much the external.

Speaker 2: 11:56

Yep.

Speaker 1: 11:58

And I've traveled a lot in my short time in the fraternity and I see we don't like to eat healthy, we don't like to do healthy things, we don't like to exercise generally as Masons, and so I think it's a really good message for Masons that you just said it doesn't matter how old you are, you can do something to fight it and go, keep going yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:23

And it's and it's weird. Even you know, and as you get to know me and I'll explain later you know I contribute a lot of different facets of my life and putting it all together whether it's getting up at four or three in the morning to go running, going to the workout or, you know, being involved with my church till seven, eight, 9, 10 o'clock at night, those different strengths and experiences make me a better person. So being able to be, not necessarily. I don't run to stay fit.

Speaker 2: 12:58

It helps, but mentally it keeps me fit and by being fit mentally it helps me when I'm at the lodge and doing anything I want with the masonry. So I think the impacts of those different spectrums of my life come together and helps me become a better person. It makes me a better person. Oh for sure Whether it's inside the lodge or whether it's outside.

Speaker 1: 13:22

Yes, you actually served in the military.

Speaker 2: 13:26

No, I did not, so I'll give you a little bit of history of my background. So I was born in Vietnam back in the 60s. You're Vietnamese, I am I am. Vietnamese. Well, let me say I was born in the Vietnam. However, I'm more Filipino than Vietnamese Right.

Speaker 2: 13:42

So, as history knows, throughout the history of Vietnam as well as the Philippines, the Philippines have always wanted to, you know, leave their country because of the government, stuff like that. So the majority of the Filipinos headed east, which is over to China or to Vietnam. So a great deal of the population of Vietnam is Filipino. It's got a lot of the Filipino in there. So out on the streets and stuff, most of the Filipinos recognize me more of them as being more Filipino than I am Vietnamese. So I was born during the midst of the Vietnam War, what you know. Yes, I was Wow. And when I was about a year and a half, a military family adopted me and they brought me to the States and so I've lived pretty much with the exception of being stationed, you know, throughout the country, throughout the United States. I pretty much grew up here in Florida, so I've lived or been familiar, lived, in Florida for over 52 years now.

Speaker 1: 14:48

Wow, yeah. So you think we would talk about this stuff, but we don't. We're really just, we're winging it when we record these podcasts. So if I'm getting too personal, please tell me to go pound sand. But what happened to your parents?

Speaker 2: 15:05

So we don't really have an official. I'm assuming you're meaning my biological parents. Your biological parents yes, so I was pretty much abandoned and I was found by a Vietnamese orphanage. So their story that they related to my, you know, american parents or adopted parents was that they were killed. So but there's no proof of that. As well, as it's funny, I don't even know what my real birthday or real age is because, at the time, you know, back in the sixties there were no documentations associated to who I was or what I was.

Speaker 2: 15:45

So at the time when the babies were being adopted out and getting out of the country, they had to have a birth certificate. So they took a lot of the birth certificates of those babies who have already deceased and put those with those who did not have them. So, I was given somebody else's.

Speaker 1: 16:05

Whoa.

Speaker 2: 16:06

And that's how I was able to come over to the United States, wow. So really, I don't know if I'm 55 or 54 years old at 55, and I don't know my real birthday.

Speaker 1: 16:19

That is insane brother.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Yeah, wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 16:23

Yeah, so a great deal know you've researched right, I'm sure by this point in your life yeah, because um, the western world was not able to have access or go visit vietnam until the late 1990s. But once um it opened up, I had the advantage to be able to travel over there. I went there two, three times, but on the last two trips I was able to look at my adoption papers and do some research, because even back in the late 1990s or even early 2000s, research of that time on the web is not as detailed and informative as what it has been in the last five, ten years. So since then I've been able to research things and gone back, and the last time I went I actually hired a tour guide to take me out into the Mekong Delta, to the area where I was from, and I was able to go back and actually see where the orphanageage I was at and talk to him mind-blowing yeah and then on that trip.

Speaker 2: 17:29

What I did because I know it's a third world country in that area it's very, you know, um, they don't. They didn't even barely have electricity I was able to. I took like four or five suitcases with me of school supplies, you know, clothes and stuff, and I took it to the orphanage and they were so happy yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:48

You're such a good person. I would have never thought about that, but that makes perfect sense that you would do that.

Speaker 2: 17:55

Yeah, I'm sure they really appreciated that too. They did. But it was an interesting country because a trip, not only because I was able to go back and see where you know my home country and what it was like. But I also was told too by my mom that, if you can, to almost all the Asian countries as well as Central America and South America.

Speaker 2: 18:40

so much more of appreciation of the world and the people, but you get so much appreciation of what I was able to benefit by being an American here in the United States. So, you see things so much different in ways that most Americans don't even realize what they have and don't have.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Yeah, I've talked many times about how I feel like I won the lottery. When I was born. You know, I'm tall, I got blue eyes, I have my teeth, I have most of my hair, I live in the United States as a man Like I got all the boxes ticked off, so like, if I don't succeed, what kind of a loser am I that I had all these benefits and can't succeed? But, um, for you I'm sure it feels the same a little bit, like you feel like you hit the jackpot, being raised in the united states versus over there, like that's a massive advantage for you.

Speaker 2: 19:38

I have and and I don't take for granted of what I have I knew it was a blessing and a gift for being able to come over here, because I have access to free education. I had access to, you know, get secondary education with my college degrees and stuff, as well as being able to become a brother for them, you know as a.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Mason, a lot of countries aren't able to do that, but so so yes, I've always appreciated and thankful for what I was giving and the advantages so like. When I hear people today complain because they can't do this or go somewhere, I just shake my head.

Speaker 1: 20:16

so, excuse me yes, but it's like a double-edged sword, because I'm I mean, we are very lucky in this country, there's no doubt about it.

Speaker 2: 20:27

We have we are yes, air conditioning, electricity, internet we can.

Speaker 1: 20:32

You know we're only limited by our own desires and drive. Really, I mean, even your circumstances can be overcome if you're persistent enough, right, I mean your economic circumstances that you're born into. Now, this is what I want to look at the other side of the coin, because I try to put myself in somebody's shoes whenever I'm interviewing them, thinking about what their life must be like, and I can see the one side, how you feel so lucky and you appreciate probably more than the average american things, that everyday things that are happening to you. But then, at the same time, you said you lived your whole life in florida and you're filipino slash vietnamese.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Now, there isn't a huge filipino slash vietnamese community in florida now you have to stick out like a sore thumb wherever you are right, Like in school, grade school.

Speaker 2: 21:29

And it's funny. People ask me you know, do I know much about my culture or history? And until I got out of college, no, I didn't. Because if you're a Filipino living in Gainesville Florida back in the 70s Filipino living in Gainesville Florida back in the 70s you're not going to find any Asian or Filipino culture in Gainesville Florida. Right, so you're trying your hardest to assimilate Right and just be like everybody else. You're not trying to Exactly yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 22:02

So I mean, yes, you're right, I did stand out, you know right, I did stand out, um, you know um. So how hard was that for you growing up. I mean kids can be, I mean if, even if you have nothing to pick on, they'll find something to pick.

Speaker 2: 22:13

Oh, it was yeah, I was an instant target you know, um, and fortunately my parents were able to, you know, help me understand at an early age that I'm going to be different. But I wasn't different, I was unique.

Speaker 1: 22:28

And.

Speaker 2: 22:28

I think that's what helped, because, yeah, kids could be mean oh merciless, it was merciless. But you know, I think that's what helped me become as strong as I am now is because I have to admit, yes, I was bullied, I was tortured, I was harassed when I was a kid, I mean even up to, I hate to say, even to now. You know, I'm used to that, I get that all the time.

Speaker 1: 22:53

But you know, as a grown man yes, yes, that's something.

Speaker 2: 22:59

Yeah, it happens to this day and age.

Speaker 1: 23:02

I mean, I guess you're like an easy target for a bully, because bullies tend to go for people they feel confident they can harass, beat up, do whatever they want and they're never going to fight back.

Speaker 2: 23:13

And it doesn't help that I'm only 5'1".

Speaker 1: 23:16

That's what I'm saying. Your height must make a bully feel like, oh, this is the guy I'm going to get.

Speaker 2: 23:21

Yeah, so, and it's funny, and I think this might lead up to something that you and I were discussing a couple of days ago. You know we can today's society is pride on. You know proud to say that, hey, we accept everybody. We're, you know, we're equal. We do this. But to this day and age there is so much stereotyping and there's so much bullying and harassment, and that is with. I've gotten more harassment and discriminated as an adult than I did as a kid.

Speaker 1: 23:55

Really.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Yes.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Wow, see, this goes to show you both sides of the argument can be right, because people you said it in the beginning like you get upset when you hear people talk about like, oh, I can't believe, I, I can't do something. But you're like, bro, go over there, you can't even vote in my country, like you know you have. But at the same time, we have a long way to go. Still we do. We shouldn't feel like we've achieved the pinnacle of cultural excellence we have. We have definitely improved ourselves since the 50s and 60s, for sure, without a doubt, but we have a long way to go before where we should be, I think we do and what a lot of people don't realize is, you know they're guilty of it themselves.

Speaker 2: 24:45

Yeah, they don't realize it yeah because I hear things at work all the time, things that are said, um, yeah, and and it's, you know it's well, you travel a lot extensively.

Speaker 1: 24:55

You said, and right, I didn't travel until I was an adult. I grew up in upstate new york and the only people I knew were other people on my block. Basically, I had a pretty small life and, um, you know, my own parents were quite racist. In hindsight, like we would be driving and I remember if we saw a black person on the side of the road, my mom would be like roll up your windows, don't look out the windows, kids, right? Uh, I would be so scared I'm like, oh god, like they're gonna get me.

Speaker 1: 25:25

And uh, you know, then when we moved out of state and I was like thrown into like a whole different world. I was subjected to so many different people and cultures. And, right, you know, I worked at disney. That was my first real job, and talk about diversity. It's like an explosion of diversity all over me, right, you know, I just, I just love it, I just love it. There's no amount of diversity. That's enough for me now. And I don't know what changed in me, because I started out a very american, closed-minded, the way I was raised and I as an adult, I think I attribute it to star trek okay start growing up I watched.

Speaker 1: 26:05

I didn't have a father or male, you know, so I learned most of my moral system from that show. Right, they harped on diversity being a strength.

Speaker 1: 26:15

They did and I think that's what got into my core as a child and as an adult, I feel like I'm always fighting, because there's always a fight when it comes to that stuff in the world, right and um, you know, I can be very annoying to people because I'm always trying to squash it and I'm trying to bring light to it. And uh, people, you know, they just want you to just be quiet, man, just just let it go. It's in the past, leave it alone. It's like it is for you, it is yeah, and that that is true.

Speaker 2: 26:44

And then when I um bring up the issues, I bring up things that are sad, mostly, yeah, especially with my co-workers or even people in f3 and so forth, and even with my nights in columbus. You know when I bring it up. It's not like that.

Speaker 2: 26:58

I'm sitting there, condone, you know condoning it or, you know, getting on to one it's just I'm trying to educate them because some of the things that are said, you know there's certain sectors or certain classes. If you were bluntly stereotyping or saying something offensive, you know we're very cautious about what we say about those different classes because so much light has been shined on them for so long that people focus on that correct, but other things that people have said.

Speaker 2: 27:30

You know um with this again, the demographics here in sarasota they tend to be the older, um and their mindset yeah, not to say that's a not to say it's the excuse. So that's allowable you know, but their mindset with the way we're brought up was different. Yes, so, with me being from Vietnam and then growing up around these Vietnam veterans, I've gotten so much harassment and mistreatment.

Speaker 1: 28:01

Well, yeah, your people were the enemy when they were in the military.

Speaker 2: 28:06

Right. I remember when I had a discussion with my mom and my sister they were American and my sister was Vietnamese as well and she said and I was telling her, explaining to them you know how much discrimination and bullying and everything was harassed, and they said, well, that's weird. But my sister said I never had that, you know, no one ever did that to me. And my mom would say I never saw that. And I was like because, growing up, most people if they associate an Asian lady or female, they associate to geisha, girls, quiet, petite, but when, especially the generation you know, greatest generation and so forth, and the boomers, when you think of an Asian male you automatically think of the Korean War the Japanese.

Speaker 2: 28:55

War, the Vietnamese War, so those were their enemies. So unfortunately, I was the you know impact or the effective that came out of those three wars. So that's what made the difference. But you can't change the past. You learn and I think because of all that it's made me a stronger person.

Speaker 1: 29:19

My skin is very tough.

Speaker 1: 29:21

I think there are two kinds of people in this world. There are victims and there are people that overcome. And I have family that had the exact same upbringing I had, and you can see the victim and what that life looks like as an adult. Everything is someone else's fault, everything my mother's fault, somebody else's fault, everything my mother's fault, somebody else's fault. And then there's the other type of person, who apparently is you, who is like what else? What else you got? Give it to me. Like I'm, I'm gonna fight, I'm gonna succeed, I'm gonna overcome. What, what do you got? Like? Tell me I'm too short, okay, I'm gonna outrun you. Tell me I'm not smart enough, I'm going to beat you at that game too. Like. I feel like you are the type of person who might've gone through life facing every challenge as exactly that like something to overcome and prove yourself.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Exactly, and you know, and and it's not that I'm out to prove myself to anyone, but when you tell me or, in a way, say that I'm not capable of doing something. It doesn't matter if you're 10 foot tall or my size. I'm going to do my best to prove them wrong, and that kind of helps me to where I'm at, you know, with the masonry as well as the other things I do.

Speaker 1: 30:43

This is why you're such a huge asset to the fraternity because you have such a well-rounded life, um, you have the leadership skills from your job, uh, your career, I should say, um, and also just your upbringing and who you are as a person, with the military, parents and, uh, you know, having been, let's say, and having to overcome that kind of stuff, teaches you a certain patience with people. I guess you could say you have to tolerate, tolerate yeah, that's a better word. You have to tolerate more than the average person, right? And so when they talk about subduing your passions, you're like you know, I got that, no problem. But everybody else is like that's, their biggest challenge is trying to subdue their passions. So you're ahead of the game in many ways when you come to the fraternity.

Speaker 2: 31:32

Well, thank you.

Speaker 1: 31:33

I mean in many ways, because it's good kind of words. Yep, you talk about your um knights of columbus. You mentioned that. I would love to talk about that. So not only were you a military? Uh, brat, uh, you were physically active your whole life and still are to this day. Uh, you have a government job, you, you have a very respectable career don't tell too many people that I have a government job I'm not gonna say where that's for.

Speaker 2: 32:02

I get harassed about that as well, really, yeah, because when you tell them that you're with the government or something, they think that I'm aligned with those who are in power that I sit there and agree with whatever they do you know what I work for the municipality. I don't necessarily agree with everything that's going on or what they support. So that's.

Speaker 1: 32:24

It's funny because of all things that I gotta hide in my life or should be keep, I do not tell people what I do out there, unless yes oh well, I think, uh, people you know, for some reason, when you work for the government you get a certain level of credibility uh, that that's better than even a lawyer or doctor.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Oh no, yes and no, it's got that. You know how to say two-sided thing same thing with attorneys. If you say you're a lawyer, some people are going like oh gosh, as long as they hate you, and it's the same thing with the government.

Speaker 1: 32:55

They either hate you or you know what I do, and I'll tell everybody what I do.

Speaker 2: 32:59

I'm actually a comprehensive planner, urban. I'm actually a comprehensive urban planner for the municipality here in Manning County. So therefore, with all the growth, the development, I'm heavily involved with that. That's what I do. But when someone finds out that I work for the county as a planner, then all of a sudden I'm the target or the blame. So how I tell, how I explain it to people is, you know, in those old movies when the townspeople have the pitchforks and bars going after the city or the mayor, that's basically what they're doing. But as well as if you tell them that, when I tell them I work for the county, they're like they think I know everything, from what time their garbage gets picked up or why the traffic light on Manatee Avenue is out. So that's why I'm cautious about what I tell people what I do.

Speaker 1: 33:57

That makes sense. Yeah, I totally get that.

Speaker 2: 34:02

But I'm proud to work for them.

Speaker 1: 34:04

Yeah, that's great. I love doing it, but yeah, I hope the benefits are good.

Speaker 2: 34:10

They are One big reason why I'm there. Yes. And the retirement's great too.

Speaker 1: 34:16

So we've got all of these things in your life that are leading you to be a leader. And now we come to like your faith and this is something that you've also been like everything in your life, apparently, like all in, like all in. You've been involved in the Catholic church. You didn't play around with a non-denominational church or a Baptist or Presbyterian, no Catholic. You've been Catholic your whole life, practicing Catholic Correct. I don't mean that you go to church on holidays, you're practicing. Could you talk a little bit about, like, how involved you've been in the church?

Speaker 1: 34:55

and how that leads into the Knights of Columbus, because that's something I want to talk about.

Speaker 2: 35:00

So it's funny, I'm not what we call them trifectas and we call some Catholics trifectas because they only come out on Ash Wednesday, easter, christmas. No, I go to Mass all the time. I'm at my church four and five times a week. So and I was, it's funny again and why I have so much faith is growing up.

Speaker 2: 35:30

My family didn't go to church, but for some reason something told me, as a six-year-old, I need to go to church. So by the time when I was six years old, I found my way to church, whether it was a teacher to come by to get me or somebody else, a parent coming by to take me to church, or if I walked. I went to church every week since I was six years old and again my family didn't go to church. So that was all on me, that's almost 50 years.

Speaker 2: 36:01

Correct. So even at that young age, when my mom, you know, made me realize how appreciative life was because I'm here in the United States, I just felt like there's that God put me in the right place at the right time and my contribution, or for me to help pay back, is being faithful. You know having strong faith and that's what I continue to do. And you know, as I grew up, that faith becomes stronger. And you know, as I grew up, that faith becomes stronger. And to this day, you know, one of the things that people have said to me is Kevin, we know your faith is so powerful and what you do, we have no doubt of what you're capable of doing.

Speaker 2: 36:46

So I chose, you know, to be Catholic because it went along the lines of what they believed and what they stood in. But because they are regiment, you know, just like the military, you know you go, do this, you do this. Today, we're going to do this. And what helped is in my travels. No matter where I was in the world, I'm going to get the same message. That's what I did and I did and that was such a great advantage. A bit of a two is, when I traveled, whether it was in the Central America, south America or Asia when I went to mass. It was the same thing. So, yes, I, you know, I have the. Catholicism plays a big role in my faith.

Speaker 1: 37:36

They made an impact on me to the point, as she's saying, of the knights of columbus. I am dying to hear about the knights of columbus because I only know about them. Um, my wife's father was in the knights of columbus, but he's definitely not, uh and I couldn't talk to him. And, uh, one time I was at lunch and these guys I thought my wife thought they were masons having lunch behind us because they had what the same exact kind of badges we have on um, but when I asked them they were they.

Speaker 1: 38:00

They kind of held up their nose like what? No, like we're not masons, uh, we're knights of columbus. And I said, oh, okay, and I shut up because I've heard through the masons that the knights of columbus don't like us. Um, I see nothing in Masonry against the Knights of Columbus. So what is that about? Well, what are the Knights of Columbus about? And where does this like they don't like us thing come from?

Speaker 2: 38:23

So Knights of Columbus is a Catholic organization for men. Okay, that's dedicated to, of course, community service and serving God. So it was originally formed back in 1833 by one of the priests who happened to be up in New York and what he realized is, back at that time, a lot of the workers the steel workers, things like that, or different trade works like that or different trade works- yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:55

When the husbands of course, at that time the man was the only breadwinner. But if something happened or they were, you know, had deceased, the family was left without a head of a household or working you know someone to take care of. So the Knights of Columbus were formed to support the widows and their families and providing for them should one of their husbands or their fathers passed away. And so that's how the Knights of Columbus came into play. And again, if I'm moving forward, I have so much respect for who they are and what they are and what they do.

Speaker 1: 39:38

Well, you're one of them.

Speaker 2: 39:40

I am.

Speaker 1: 39:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:41

But at the same time they emulate what the Masons do. Really it's no secret now. It used to be secret. We couldn't tell people what we did or how we did things. We couldn't tell people what we did or how we did things. But from my perspective, all the quote, unquote, ritual and you know, esoteric and stuff was so is almost like mere image of what Masons do.

Speaker 1: 40:07

You were in the Knights of Columbus before you were a Mason.

Speaker 2: 40:18

I was, so I've been a Mason for probably 15 years now knights of columbia for 15 years excuse me.

Speaker 1: 40:21

Yes, yes, my apology, yes the knights of columbus.

Speaker 2: 40:22

So I started out, um, and I eventually became the grand knight as of um, yeah, about three years ago I became the Grand Knight for my council, so I just recently, is that?

Speaker 1: 40:35

like equivalent to the Master.

Speaker 2: 40:37

Correct, it is.

Speaker 1: 40:38

Yes.

Speaker 2: 40:39

So it's equivalent to the Master and a lot of times I got to be careful because we address our Grand Knight as worthy, whereas we address our Master, masters worshipful.

Speaker 2: 40:52

So I had to be cautious. One reason the Knights do not like the Masons or against them and according to some, most and even the Pope has, you know, you supported this is they don't. You cannot be a Mason if you cannot be a Knight of Columbus if you, if you're a Mason. And the reason why is because with Masons, we don't actually use the word God, we use address as the great architect. We do?

Speaker 1: 41:26

We say God all the time. We do, but we don't say it we say God, we don't say Jesus, though Correct, I think that's probably the one that is the itchy.

Speaker 2: 41:37

Part of it too, but in their eyes, if we're not allowed to say Jesus or God wherever we want, and we're restricted. That goes against one of our beliefs and what we stand for, so, therefore, that's why that's basically why?

Speaker 1: 41:54

Well, that's too bad. You would hope they could have a little bit of tolerance. You know You'd think they would, but if you go to other parts of the country.

Speaker 2: 42:09

the Knights of Columbus work together with the Masons of Columbus, work together with the Masons. They understand how they work together and that they're not contradicting each other or who they are or what they believe in. You know, when I became a Mason, I'm not surrendering or I'm not losing any of my faith or giving up anything that I have with my Catholicism and what I've told many is my masonry empowers my faith more than anything you know, the knights have to admit.

Speaker 2: 42:43

over the years they become less restrictive, less you know how do I say demanding?

Speaker 2: 42:51

So we could sit there and tell you everything that goes on. They're free about that, you know. So we could sit there and tell you everything that goes on they're free about that, you know we could do whatever we want, whereas the Masons, you know we're a little bit regimental, more protective of who we are and what we do. So I think that's the big difference and I'm proud, you know, I have nothing to be ashamed about. I'm proud of it, of being the knight of where I am.

Speaker 1: 43:17

I think it's good for people to hear that from your lips, because I have family and friends and their biggest thing about what they don't like about Freemasonry is they just don't believe me, that they think it's its own religion, that it's its own faith that they're going to subvert religion, that it's its own faith that they're going to subvert what you believe and make you believe in something that masons believe. But horse shit, it's not true, it's not. I can't tell them that. But you know people hear you. You're. You've been active in in catholicism for 50 some years, almost. Well, you said at least 40, 40 okay, for a long time yes

Speaker 1: 43:59

and you've been active and you've participated and you've given and, uh, you, you get it, you know it and you join the fraternity. I'm sure you had some hesitations at some point everyone does because you just don't know for sure until you join. You know, uh, right, but now you're here, and not only again are you here, you're active in it. You're an officer in a lodge, you're going to be the master of the lodge, um, and god knows where you're going to go from there. Hopefully, uh, I'll, I'll live to see you become the grandmaster one day. That would be an honor for me to see that. I'm looking forward to it, actually, and I have no doubt you'll get there, because you're so stubborn once you get into something, which is the trait I admire. But it's something people need to hear, because you just said it. It didn't detract from your faith in Catholicism, it enhanced it.

Speaker 2: 44:53

It did. Yes, it sounds cliche, but everything I've learned from my Knights and my experience with them have helped me become a leader and understanding more of what you are, and going back to the idea that I keep saying it's almost mere image to what masonry does, it kind of helped me understand where we're going, where I'm going and what I need to do, and so by being the grand or excuse, the grand knight, I understand the importance of what needs to be put in place for leadership as I'm hopefully bound for the east yeah that's going to help me.

Speaker 2: 45:35

So you know, the masonry helps me become a better person, not only with my faith, with my Catholicism, as well as the night, but at the same time, everything I've got out of Catholicism, especially the nights, have helped me to where I am today and you know I'm going to keep that faith and that's where it's going to go, who knows if it gets out.

Speaker 2: 46:01

and they may say I'm not like me anymore. I just look at it. As you know what God has a plan. He's going to put me in a place, and it's funny because when I first got into masonry, in my mind I'm sitting like there's going to be a point where I'm going to have to decide which one or the other, and it wasn't long after I joined masonry that I knew at some point it's like okay, I know which way I'm going to go if I have to decide.

Speaker 1: 46:33

And here I am still, and so far, you know, things have been you know well for me at this point, but well, I think it's important to note there's nothing in catholicism that says you can't be a mason, um, no, these are. These are individuals, choices, um, and so it very much is a regional thing too. It's like where do you live and and who's in charge? As if you're going to be accepted or not. Yes, and we talked a little bit about this before we started recording I'm not a Catholic. I was raised Presbyterian and I don't even know what the difference is, honestly, because I've never been to a Catholic church. But you know, the tenets and the belief system is very different from the practice. Practice and I've I've been told recently that I'm no good for masonry, that people say that I'm divisive and tearing things apart. Um, and I think that's because I'm not afraid to talk about things that should be talked about, and people maybe don't like that right, but uh, in freemasonry it's the same like.

Speaker 1: 47:51

The system is beautiful, it's almost perfect and it works every time if you follow the system, but the people can screw up a wet dream. I mean, people are just people.

Speaker 2: 48:05

It is.

Speaker 1: 48:07

If people's only experience with masonry is through someone that maybe isn't a great mason, you can see how they that that person and everyone touches.

Speaker 1: 48:17

Yeah, it's creates like a deadly spiral of negativity, correct? You know? The only answer to that for us and for Catholics is to be a good representative of the system, not, like the people around you, necessarily be more faithful to the system than you are the people, yes, and you'll be okay and you'll be a good representative of whatever system you believe in it is, and and that's the thing too is, even with the Knights, but especially in my, you know, home life, traveling is the key word.

Speaker 2: 48:54

Okay, yes, I'm proud to say I'm a traveler man, because that has so much, you know, symbolistic to me, because if you travel, or if you go from, let's say, council to council or church to church, or even in the lodge, you're going to get so many different perspectives.

Speaker 2: 49:12

Okay, you're going to get so many different perspectives, so many people that you can't sit there and force yourself to go one way because you're going to see so many ways of doing things. Whether you know if you're in Thailand and you're traveling on the left side, you know reading signs that are totally oblivious, the people are the same, the process is the same. Whether you're at the Knights of Columbus and you're up in Tennessee, your faith is going to be the same. The people may be different, but your faith is going to be the same. So same thing with masonry. You know, I understand and I know you know a great deal of how my brothers in the lodge works. But when I've traveled, you know, throughout the district you get different perceptions and you see me different people, so you cannot be tuned to just one idea, one format. You see so many different ways of doing things and perspectives and I think that you know, embraces that strength of who we are as a brother.

Speaker 1: 50:17

That's. One great thing about this fraternity is that it encourages travel, because I always heard from a young age that the cure for ignorance is travel. If you stay in one place and only know the same people your whole life.

Speaker 2: 50:33

You're ignorant of so many things in this world, right, and you really do need to get out and live a little bit and see a little bit more of the world to understand the bigger picture yep, and, and at that, and, and, and you know, going back, I, yes, I'm kept from gainesville and there are people my school classmates and friends that I know who are still living in gainesville that have not traveled out to my father in Tallahassee. That doesn't take away from who they are and what they are doing. It just gives the rest of us an advantage and the benefits of being able to see the rest of the world and you can be friends with those people.

Speaker 1: 51:12

but I would venture that they sometimes say things you think are outright dumb or ignorant and you just have to kind of keep to yourself and be like well, they don't know any better.

Speaker 2: 51:24

But that's what makes the world go round our differences. But what makes us better as brothers, amazingly, is we can accept those differences. We can accept those differences yes, we can accept other ideas.

Speaker 1: 51:38

Yes.

Speaker 2: 51:38

We don't have to support them, we don't have to agree with them.

Speaker 1: 51:42

Right.

Speaker 2: 51:42

But we can accept them, and that's what makes us brothers and true brothers. Yeah, and you know again with the Knights. They're great men. Some of my brother's greatest friends and greatest brothers are great, but there's most of them are so selective and they don't even want to open their minds that there's other organizations or other things that can help yeah, you know with their faith in society. They're just so not willing to open their minds to that.

Speaker 1: 52:14

That's too bad, that's unfortunate. When you get in that place, you're basically dead already. I mean there's no growth, there's no opportunity for improvement. You're just going to decay and die when you get to that place.

Speaker 2: 52:30

Yeah, so I have to admit. Just last week I was nominated to be the District Grand Knight.

Speaker 1: 52:39

Congratulations.

Speaker 2: 52:40

So that's true of all of it. However, I turned it down. What? Because, well, it's an honor, but at the same time, I want to focus my attention to my journey and this is more important. Focus my attention to my journey and this is more important. And at the same time, too, I would feel like, if I'm standing up there amongst the district, leading these guys which I know most of them which way they're thinking or what they want to proceed with. I don't necessarily agree and again, I could accept it but I don't feel like it's my place to be their leader and not really support everything that they're wanting to do.

Speaker 1: 53:22

Well, that's okay, just give it a few more years, we'll make you a district deputy in the 23rd Masonic District.

Speaker 2: 53:28

I'd rather focus my journey right now, as, hopefully, I'm bound for the East. I want to focus my attention to that.

Speaker 1: 53:35

Oh, you're the junior warden of your lodge. You're on an unstoppable journey to the East. Now there's no getting out of it. You're in for the long haul now.

Speaker 2: 53:44

And I'm looking forward to it. I'm already, you know, preparing myself. I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure you are. Hopefully, you know, eventually I'll get there, but I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 53:55

You know I'll bring it back to the beginning we talked about. I was there for your. I was definitely there the day you were raised a master mason.

Speaker 1: 54:03

Yes there were several brothers that day, as there usually are when you do a master mason degree. I didn't know you at the time other than I had done another degree, so I kind of saw you and maybe we shook hands and said hello. But I was in the mood the day you became a Master Mason Like I was. It might have been the first time I was allowed to play the third base in the Master Mason degree, we'll say, and it's a big role. So I take it seriously and I was good friends with the master anthony. Uh, tomorrow, tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 54:39

Yes, and he was. He happened to be solomon. So well, he and I were standing there and I'll tell the story. I hope it's not embarrassing to you no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 54:47

Because memorable, because you know what correct right. If it's a memorable thing that help teaches others, that's great well you had.

Speaker 1: 54:56

You had a diverse group that went through with you. There was like an older gentleman and a younger gentleman and you were kind of in the middle and I was like, hey, you know what. I went to Anthony and I said you know, I think I could like really rough not rough this guy up, but I think I could do something different. And he said go for it. And I was like, are you sure, Because I don't know if he's going to be okay with it. And he said trust me, he's going to be okay. Not only is he going to be okay with it, he's going to love it. I said, okay, all right.

Speaker 1: 55:28

So you came around and I struggled a little, but I did get you up over my head. I grabbed you and picked you up over my head and then I'm saying what I gotta say and doing what I gotta do. Um, I realized once I had you up there, I had no plan for what to do once you were up there. So I just kind of put you down and we finished the whole degree. But honestly, my, I couldn't stop thinking about I hope I didn't offend this man. I hope he's okay with this. And you got up at the end and said some pretty heartfelt words that day and you looked right at me and said, thank you, I appreciate everything you did today and I thought, okay, he's okay. There was like an hour where I was just beating myself up Like I went too far. You did it now, Chris. You went too far.

Speaker 2: 56:18

Unfortunately, Brother Anthony, he knew who I was and what type of person I was.

Speaker 1: 56:25

He knew how athletic you were.

Speaker 2: 56:27

And it was a great opportunity not only for you, but it was a great experience for me, because I'll never forget it and I'm sure you'll never forget it. I won't Again. It was the right time at the right place. How many other opportunities are you going to be able to do that, or?

Speaker 1: 56:42

anybody? Never, you're not. I'm like six foot three. You're how tall. How tall did you say Five foot one? Five foot one I was like. This just seems like it's supposed to happen right now.

Speaker 2: 56:53

So yes, and it did, and you know it's been and not only did that make that stronger bond with you, but it made that experience memorable.

Speaker 1: 57:04

Yeah, I'm sure it was memorable for everybody in the room that day.

Speaker 2: 57:08

But now when I go and see it happening to others, I'm like that's it.

Speaker 1: 57:14

That's it, we had a special day yeah, I don't think that's ever been done and I doubt it will ever be done again hey you know, what and if.

Speaker 2: 57:23

If the experience you know resonates through others and helps them you know experience get more out of the experience, then that's the best thing that can happen.

Speaker 1: 57:33

You know, I well, really honestly, ever since then you've been a big supporter. You you always came to my lodge. You always helped when you were. We asked you to help. You're wearing the t-shirt that you purchased. You didn't accept a free t-shirt. You had to pay for it because that's the kind of person you are and you've been a supporter and I really appreciate that and I feel like now I can maybe return the favor, maybe I can start to support you a little bit now.

Speaker 2: 58:00

You've always supported me. I mean, you know more ways than one you know, and it's like anything else, it's the little impacts or let me rephrase that, the big impacts that you make on someone behind the scenes.

Speaker 1: 58:13

That's the importance, right, the right. Well, that's where the important stuff really happens, you know. Yes, those meetings.

Speaker 2: 58:20

Yeah, you're gonna help me out eventually in the next couple years.

Speaker 1: 58:25

So I I'm very much looking forward to your journey and seeing it. You've been, you know. You came to my lodge and you did an awesome education which we were going to talk about today. We'll talk about it another time. Yes, and you're continuing to do new educations for your lodge. I saw you in my lodge do the playing cards presentation.

Speaker 2: 58:49

Yes, sir.

Speaker 1: 58:50

I saw the presentation you let me look at it the Jack the Ripper presentation, which I'm sure went well, and you told me you're doing another one tomorrow in Lodge. That sounds really interesting, actually about the booze club and the Knights of Columbus and all these other groups.

Speaker 2: 59:08

Yeah, because a lot of times and I'm sure I'm not the only one when we do tell our friends and co-workers and peers that we're involved with the Masons, they're like well, what is that? Is that like the moose? Is that like the eagles? Is that like such and such? So basically, the presentation I'll be presenting soon is the differences between those organizations and you know what they do for the community and how you know what we do versus what they do. That way we get a better understanding of who we are, but that way we know what to say to separate us or distinguishes us from those organizations.

Speaker 1: 59:53

I wish I could see it in person. I'll see it. You'll do it again.

Speaker 2: 59:59

Well, I'm hoping most of your guys will be there some of your guys, because we've got the traveling they're planning to come get it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:05

They're planning to come get it. We don't have much luck with that, though. Wherever we go, somebody else always comes and they always outnumber us. Yeah, the last three times we've gone to places and we've been outnumbered and didn't come home with a traveling gavel yeah, so, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing some of you all there tomorrow night, um at our meeting.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

But, um, yeah, so, um, yeah, I'm. I'm honored to be asked to do the Masonic education for Manny 31. But I take a different approach and I know, once in a while I'll throw in. You know what masonry does or basic things. You know what we can do on education. But I truly believe that when I come up with some of these unique presentations that I've come up in the last year or so, it draws a different interest for the brothers. Yeah, you know, sometimes when we say, okay, we got Masada's education, they go like, okay, what are we going to do? Somebody's going to print something out. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:01:09

So I just feel that if I add a different uniqueness or an interesting element to something you know, somebody could say well, jack the Ripper, that's not, you know, you're just a presentation. But if you really read into the presentation I made, it makes you think of who we are as Masons, what we do and how it contributes. So it's not the presentation itself that I'm doing to educate, not the presentation itself that I'm doing to educate.

Speaker 1: 1:01:39

it's the thought or the mindset or how you're thinking about this presentation yeah that to me is stronger, to build that connection for what my son, masonry, is yeah, it forces them to look at something they know, they think they know in a different light, correct, and that kind of drives people's and this is the point of Freemasonry. We are supposed to come together with our different backgrounds and different religions together and ask the big questions and we're all supposed to give our perspectives, we're supposed to try to read into what the stuff means and we're supposed to try to find a personal answer for ourselves. And those educations are really triggering one of the main things that's required to be a good Mason, which is critical thinking and trying to look at something even mundane in a different way, a little more critically.

Speaker 2: 1:02:35

Yes. So, as you can see, you know from what I've told you about my history, that's basically the you know my whole life. I'm not typical, I'm different, I'm unique. So whatever I've had to do or whatever have been brought to me, I've had to step out of the box and think how am I going to be able to accomplish what everybody has been able to do, but in a different way that would help me adapt to what's going on and succeed? It's by faith, whether it's by education, fitness or masonry. You got to step out of the box every once in a while and look at it from a different perspective, and that's how I see it. Many could say that, well, Kevin, we didn't do it this way or we've never done it this way. Tradition calls this. I understand tradition, I respect that, but at the same time, you've got to make it interesting so it doesn't become the norm.

Speaker 1: 1:03:41

Does that make?

Speaker 2: 1:03:42

sense. I think that's how.

Speaker 1: 1:03:44

I approach things that's so needed in our fraternity because we have been around a long time. We have. We have been around a long time and the reason, as you said earlier in the podcast you said we maybe have held closer to some of our tenants than others have, and that's something that everyone loves about the fraternity, but at the same time, you don't have to hold everything that closely. You can innovate Not can innovate you not, not with ritual work, not with, like changing words, but like even in the way that you talk about something can be innovative, or the visual aspects that you bring to your powerpoints can be created and things that people the playing card thing when you're relating like everybody's played cards their whole life.

Speaker 1: 1:04:35

But when you start to look at each individual card as you do and you break it out and kind of tie it into different masonic things, it starts to make you. We're supposed to look at the whole world around us in this way, with wonder and critical eye and like try to find meaning in everything, and so I think this is really a highly overlooked part of the fraternity is people that bring their personal experiences to the mundane and and present something to me. This is what masonic education should be presenting something to masons in a way that makes them think about Masonry, but also make them think about themselves in a way. I don't know if you're doing that on purpose, but that's what I see in the presentations.

Speaker 2: 1:05:22

I do. Just, you know, without going in full detail, with the cards, yes, you take a normal deck of cards, Everybody knows it. But when you look at each of those things that you just said, but then with those cards, you're never sure of what you're dealt with. Just like life, you're never sure what you're going to be dealt with in hand. But looking at those different symbols and see how they play out, it makes you think how am I going to strategically play the right cards in order to succeed? So that is the whole backbone of that presentation. Not that the king represents this and this. It's putting all that together with your experience in masonry and how you're going to put those things, those facets, together in life. So hopefully your journey will become successful.

Speaker 1: 1:06:17

I love it. That's such a good tie into everything we've been talking about today. When you play cards, people say that it's a game of luck. People that know cards know that it's not a game of luck. It's a game of skill and it's how you react to the cards you were dealt, what you show to people, what you think in your head, how you the decisions you make. There's a lot of skill in cards. The losers are the ones saying ah, you got lucky. You get all the lucky cards, like right strategically, and it's just like with masonry.

Speaker 2: 1:06:49

Yes, it's strategic. It's a matter of how you play your cards if you plan ahead or whatever you're dealt with as you go through it. Hopefully in the end you'll have the right cards to have a successful journey if you play your hand right.

Speaker 1: 1:07:06

Yes, your hand right yes, and I think that's something that I caught, like I, I don't know, as I get older, I think the veil lifts from of the mundane kind of goes away a little bit as you get older and I don't have time for the bullshit anymore. So I, I surround and if you've listened to the podcast you know, um, I'm a big. For me it's like I'm. I'm drawn to people that were broken and overcome, because there's just they're living life and you can see somebody that's unplugged from the matrix pretty quickly and recognize. And then it's a special person that uses whatever they've overcome for positive and for to help other people and to show, even though you're getting so much negativity all the time, you're trying to use it in a positive way, the way you deal with it. And I for sure saw that in you when you were raised that day as a Master Mason. You exuded that in the things that you said.

Speaker 1: 1:08:08

Everyone gives a speech. Mostly everybody likes to stand up and give a speech when they become a master mason and some I've heard many, many, many guys say the same thing. You know it's the standard stuff. Thank you, this, this, this. You can tell when somebody's speaking from the heart and it's an authentic thing and you were. So I was kind of drawn to you from that moment because I saw, okay, this is somebody who's must have been through a lot and they're like, but you were very positive and thankful and grateful uh yes and you have.

Speaker 1: 1:08:40

You have your shit together despite everything you think so okay and that's one thing I need to. You're showing that you have your shit together, even though maybe on the inside you don't it does.

Speaker 2: 1:08:52

And, and you know, go um, just stick on what you just said too. What many people don't realize, and you know, of course, my lodge does, but I'll tell everybody else out there. And one thing that helped me get over, you know, fight my battles is because of the effects of war or your being over there. I am blind in my left eye and I'm deaf in my left ear, so growing up I don't think a lot of people know that about you.

Speaker 2: 1:09:23

Oh, and I don't really put it out as much, but we had one of our great brothers. You know to me is a legend Brother. I worship Robert Litter. He recognized that when I was going through catechism.

Speaker 2: 1:09:38

And because of that strength, of that brotherhood, he was able to help me overcome those challenges with my hearing and my sight, to get me to where I am. So, yes, I've been through a lot of challenges, things have been thrown at me to think that I'm not going to be able to do what everybody else is. But here I am and that's what's given me the strength. And you know, masonry is the same thing. It's a challenge, I have to admit it's not easy. And I tell people. You know, when I tell people, People need to know that.

Speaker 1: 1:10:15

you know you think it's easy. You're just going to get in the line and cruise control right to the east.

Speaker 2: 1:10:21

And 147 recently got a new EA, which is a good friend of mine, and I told him. When he reached out and inquired about it, I said I think you'd be great at it, You're a good fit. But let me tell you this it's work. It's not something that you could sit around and just I said it's a lot of work, You're willing to work, you'll get so much out of it and I'm looking forward to his journey as well. But yes, it's been a challenge and, of course, when I was going to the South, people said, Kevin, there's a lot of work that's going to occur for you for the next three or four years and I'm like, okay, I'm not afraid of work, bring it on and, believe me, they've given me a great deal, but you know what?

Speaker 2: 1:11:11

I'm ready for it. There's no challenge that I can't overcome, and this is no different than anything that I've had in my life, so I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 1:11:22

I'm looking forward to it too. Your lodge, manatee Lodge, number 31, is the oldest lodge in our district, district 23. I'm sure they talk about it all the time. Whenever I talk about Manatee I always do the fact that you were a Moonlight Lodge. People would only meet on a full moon because that was the only time they could see to get there and home. And you go, look at the past master's wall and you see the history.

Speaker 1: 1:11:51

My lodge, sarasota Lodge, has history too, but not like yours, and I felt the weight of that more when I became master. Honestly, um, I saw it and I appreciated it. But when you're the master and you realize that your name is now added to the collection of men in the unbroken chain that goes back to those days, the weight of it. Sure, if you're a good master, you'll feel that weight um a lot, and I sure did, and I know you will too. And I just want to say, like, that lodge has some, all lodges have their interesting situations. All of them do, and manatee is no different, like you. Um, really, you talk about this history and the majesty of the lodge, because it should be, but you know you have ups and downs, you have peaks and valleys.

Speaker 1: 1:12:40

Your lodge, wasn't long ago your master was removed by the Grandmaster Correct. Everyone was shocked. You have a past district deputy that came to the Master Mason Association and didn't shy away, didn't try to cover it up, stood up like a man, like a Mason, and explain the situation and said please work with us, please be patient with us and the district. We rallied because we all have our issues. We rallied because we all have our issues. We can understand, you know, and so you, coming from such a historic lodge, people might think you're on Easy Street.

Speaker 2: 1:13:33

But you know, you're kind of in a rebuilding phase in that lodge now where you've got to rebuild things, which means a lot of work. Yeah, so when I first went in there and saw that wall with all those past pastors and the history and I'm like wow, just can you imagine? And I have so much respect for every one of them and as I've got, as through the, through the years, I've gotten to you know their tenure and their year was and how they you know who they are and how they possess I get much respect. But to me it's not intimidating because I hopefully can. One of them up there has its unique personality. They were unique in their own ways and I've never thought of myself as being the norm like everybody else. I'm unique. So I'm hopefully going to be able to go in there and do what those past masters have done and successfully run that lodge but at the same time put my uniqueness in there, yeah, and become a legacy to.

Speaker 2: 1:14:42

Yeah, you know, when they say past master or worshipful kevin, they know that there is a difference between my year and what those past masters have done. Um, you know, it's much respect and I will hopefully not disappoint them if I should ever get in the East. But at the same time I want to do something respectful, but I want to set my own uniqueness in my own year of tenure and that's what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1: 1:15:12

I can't wait to see it. I know that is going to happen and that's what I'm going to do. I can't wait to see it. I know that is going to happen and that's why you're going to be a great master, because you're going to bring all of this history you have with you to that position. You're doing it now. I mean we always talk about being the master, but that's like just another chair, like you know. You're doing it now. I mean you know you're doing it now. I mean you're already bringing it to your. You're handling the trestle board for your lodge. You know you're trying to do a lot of things that they haven't done for some time and these are all good for the lodge and it's good for you to have the ability to do this for them, because this is how we show our love. We work that's big in masonry. We do the work. That's big in masonry. We do the work. And when you do the work, it's meant to be hard.

Speaker 2: 1:16:00

But you appreciate what is being done, yes, and you appreciate and respect the work that past masters and everybody else before you came, yeah, and of course you know it's not intimidating, but at the same time I don't want to disappoint everybody who came before me and I'm going to do my best to you know, keep, Manatee and keep its history, and that's the big thing. As you mentioned the challenge that we had, you know, yes, it was a challenge and a lot of times I felt the impact of, you know what had to code last year.

Speaker 2: 1:16:34

You know, on the backside, but, you know, the whole time it's like you know what. This is just a one-time thing. Things are going to move forward and you know what. We've got to adapt. We got to move on and don't let it get to us and just move forward. And that's what we're going to do. I mean, the biggest thing I think Manny31 is set out to do right now is to ensure that we keep that legacy going. We keep that history going and you know we're going to hit some mountains and valleys, as all other lodges have. And you know what. We're no different than than any other lodge. We're going to peak and we're going to go down, but we're going to keep going. We're not going to stop and cease to who we are. We're going to keep going. And 100 years from now, when you've got all those past masters and hopefully myself as well as the current master, when those brothers, 100 years from now, look back, they're going to sit there and say they kept it going.

Speaker 1: 1:17:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:17:41

And as I drive into the lodge, we have a I think it's a graveyard or cemetery. I'm trying to think there's a difference between a graveyard and cemetery. You know the difference correct.

Speaker 1: 1:17:51

No, I don't know the difference.

Speaker 2: 1:17:52

So a cemetery, well cemetery. Well, graveyard is right next to a church. A cemetery doesn't have a church so I'm trying to remember. I think we have a cemetery across the street so every time I drive by it really I and yes, and we have past masters and masonic's, uh, mace brothers in that. So every time I drive by there I'm thinking I can't let them disappointed. They're watching me from across the street. They're watching us yeah. And they're making sure, and I'm making sure, they can still see us across the street.

Speaker 1: 1:18:24

That's something important that I think more Masons should have on their mind as they're in the line is that don't disappoint the work that everyone before you brought. Don't disappoint, don't disappoint. Don't do things for you, do it for them, do it for the people behind you. It's not about you. You're just a link in the chain.

Speaker 2: 1:18:45

And that's what I've always said. It's not the title that I have. You come up to me and call me Kevin, you could call me brother, but it's not the title, it's the work and the effort and the initiative and the love and the passion that you have that makes the difference. So if I get into the East, I think that's great, but, yes, it's a chair. I'm just there to make sure that we keep going and that legacy continues, and that's what we need to all focus on.

Speaker 1: 1:19:11

I need you to stop saying hopefully and I think you got to remove that stuff from your vocabulary it's going to happen. It's going to happen.

Speaker 2: 1:19:21

Yeah, I do. But yes, I am very positive about my journey and I can't wait to see where it goes.

Speaker 1: 1:19:27

You're doing a great thing for Manatee Lodge and also for our district, because you are a traveling man, you do visit other lodges. You're active in the Master Mason Association. Now, if you listen to the podcast, one of the things I like to do, now that it's just me and I'm interviewing a lot of people, is give them an opportunity to have the last word on the way out. I've taken up an hour and 20 minutes of your time. Um, I've taken up an hour and 20 minutes of your time. Uh, we didn't get to the playing card uh, presentation, so I propose you come back and we do talk in more detail about that, now that people know who you are yeah, we can talk about some of your education next time.

Speaker 1: 1:20:08

but um, I I want you to know from me, um and sarasota lodge you're appreciated. Uh, you helped us from me and Sarasota Lodge you're appreciated. You helped us a lot and you're continuing to help us. The guys really do appreciate everything that you do. Zach called me that you were there and he said you're always such an awesome person, you're always willing to help and that's just being a good brother. You're a good brother.

Speaker 1: 1:20:32

It is I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm hopeful. I know you won't disappoint. I have no fear that you're going to disappoint. Sure, listen, you're human. Like I'm human, we will make mistakes, we will have a bad day, but at the end of the day, I think you're going to look back and be really proud of the things that you've done and the people that you've impacted, as you are currently impacting people's lives already. So, yes, I wanted to give you the last word on the way out. We have listeners all over the world that are Masons far outside of Florida. So what would you like to say to those brothers?

Speaker 2: 1:21:10

Well, first, chris, thank you for having me on here. It's been an honor, honor. I've listened to your podcast, for you know, for a while and, seeing who you've had on here, it's they've inspired me, they've impacted me and I just feel honored that I can be one of your guests. So hopefully I'll be doing the same for others out there. My word of advice it's just like when I have people coming up and asking me for the advice about my running. Over the years, I've experienced a great deal of things and I'm going to tell you the same thing to those brothers Do what's best for you.

Speaker 2: 1:21:49

You're the only person that could tell you and know what's right for you. I could go out and run 15 miles in the morning. That works for me. If you can't do it, then you could only do two. That's best for you. Same thing with masonry If you feel that you can do it a certain way, you do it. However, what fits for you. Don't let anybody else come up and tell you they did it this way or it works best this way. You do it, however, what fits for you. Don't let anybody else come up and tell you they did it this way or it works best. This way you do what's best for yourself, and only you and the great architect can tell you that.

Speaker 1: 1:22:26

I love it, thank you, thank you, thank you for that. That's a great message for the brothers to hear. It's a personal journey in this fraternity, just like it is, and we're here to be better people and so do what's best for you to become a better person, correct? Love it all right thank you, brother.

Speaker 2: 1:22:43

Thank you, we'll see you next time from on the level podcasts we're all right, thank you, have a good one one.