On The Level Podcast

Embracing the Symbols and Secrets that Shape Masonic Philosophy

January 27, 2024 Christopher Burns Season 2 Episode 7
On The Level Podcast
Embracing the Symbols and Secrets that Shape Masonic Philosophy
On The Level Podcast
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Embark on a captivating journey with my brother Chris and me, as we unravel the ancient enigmas and moral fibers woven into the heart of Freemasonry. Despite the raspiness in my voice that seems to add an intriguing edge to our narrative, we delve into a world where candlelit rituals and the Lion of Judah coalesce, offering listeners a glimpse into the profound impact of Masonic traditions on individual lives and society at large. This episode is a heartfelt promise of deep Masonic insights, laughter, and an appreciation for the diversity of thought within the fraternity.

As we peel back the layers of Masonic symbolism and its interplay with personal faith, our gratitude for your feedback resonates in every word, setting the stage for future discussions shaped by your thoughts and perspectives. You'll be immersed in a space where the emblematic hourglass and the revered five points of fellowship are not just symbols but lessons on the nature of time, mortality, and brotherhood. The narrative weaves through the influence of Masonry on governance and society, advocating for a world where integrity and collaboration reign supreme in leadership.

Prepare for an enlightening dialogue that celebrates the resurgence of Freemasonry among the youth, signaling a beacon of hope for the shaping of our nation's character. We encourage our lodge members to bring forth their innovations, for it is within the exchange of ideas that our community grows stronger. This episode is an invitation to the curious, an inspiration to the initiated, and a testament to our dedication to the principles of growth, fellowship, and the enduring values that have long since been the cornerstones of the Masonic order.

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Speaker 1:

Hey, chris, yeah, fred, what's a Mason?

Speaker 2:

That's a really good question, fred.

Speaker 1:

You've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join Chris and I as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft, from the common gavel to the trowel. Nothing is off the table, so grab your tools and let's get to work. This is On the Level. Well, once again, my brother Chris, we are back.

Speaker 2:

Oh sorry, I woke you up there.

Speaker 1:

The meters went all the way to 11 on that one Wow. We are back, baby, I love it. Now, first and foremost, I must explain to the audience and to you, my brother. My voice is not 100%. I'm not sure what happened. I've been doing a little bit of holistic cleansing. I've been doing some lo the poopies. No, no, no, no. This is more of a lung and sinus cleansing using milk thistle extract and a couple of other things to cleanse out. Anyway, you know me, I'm a bit of a health nut.

Speaker 2:

There's an episode of Friends where Phoebe gets a horrible cold and she can finally sing.

Speaker 1:

Oh, is that right? No.

Speaker 2:

She sounds just like you and she gets on the mic and it's all raspy and like, and she can't sing for crap, so when she gets better, no one likes her singing again, so she's constantly trying to get sick.

Speaker 1:

She's like let me lick that off the floor.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you should try singing for us. No, I keep trying guys, he just won't take the bait Someday.

Speaker 1:

I do sing and I do play guitar, but not here and certainly not now. You will, but I'm using my voice.

Speaker 2:

You got. The Phoebe voice Sounds like a ruffian.

Speaker 1:

Sounds like a ruffian. That's right. So anyway, my apologies. I'll do the best I can. I'm going to keep the tones low and slow.

Speaker 2:

I'll try to keep it high the camera.

Speaker 1:

Baby, no cracking voices today. Well, brother, we're receiving lots of cards and letters. That's a euphemism for emails.

Speaker 2:

I haven't seen a card. I haven't seen a card or a letter in 20 years.

Speaker 1:

But and I'm really thankful for it, I was going through a couple of them. We are definitely going to do a segment in the new season where we read a couple of comments and emails and kind of answer them Good, bad or indifferent. The negative ones will always go first, because we want your feedback and we are not afraid of anything negative or disagreements, as long as they're presented with gentleness and respect.

Speaker 1:

We get it sometimes yeah, yeah, but we also will read the encouraging ones, because there's lots of them and, again, overwhelmingly, people are telling us the esoteric teachings are what you guys want and it's great for us to kind of frame the show around those teachings. It really helps me and I think we could just go deeper and deeper. Man, it's an endless pool of information out there. It really is so we'll just keep that build the show around that.

Speaker 2:

We have to throw some surprises in. We can't let them just think they know who we are all the time there's going to be some mystery and surprise always.

Speaker 1:

Element of mystery and danger. What might they say?

Speaker 2:

What the heck, might they be talking about?

Speaker 1:

That's what you got to wonder.

Speaker 2:

Yes, remember that one time they got arrested on the air or whatever Crazy stuff is going to happen.

Speaker 1:

Right, yes, we're stealing the statue of Bob's big boy. Oh, and people out there probably don't know where Bob's big boy is a restaurant in Southern California.

Speaker 2:

Is it a burger place?

Speaker 1:

No, it's a sit down restaurant and there's a famous little cartoon cartoon statue that's out front of it. It's a little boy holding a plate up of like a waiter with a hamburger on it.

Speaker 2:

So I believe there was an Austin Power movie. Yeah, okay, right, the big boy was like a spaceship or something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, these two DJs, mark and Brian on KLOS Los Angeles, stole one and tried to put it on top of the Capitol Records building and they got arrested and they turned it into a whole show. Oh my God, and it was hilarious man those two when it came to on air DJ antics. They were the OGs man.

Speaker 2:

Those guys were nuts. I don't know if I'd steal something for the show, but no, we probably won't be stealing statues. I'll drive the car if you feel so inclined.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, I don't think that's Masonic brother. I'm just saying no it's not Theft and vandalism. Probably not going to be our way. I'd have to say you're right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know I'm fresh off of six hours sleep because last night I got invited to the show. I got invited to Phoenix Lodge to do senior Deacon and the fellow craft.

Speaker 1:

My apologies, gentlemen, I did not make that.

Speaker 2:

They got special dispensation to do the entire degree by candlelight, so they probably had, I would guess, close to a hundred tiny little candles all over the lodge. And then I brought my space projector and the whole ceiling was projecting space candle lights everywhere.

Speaker 1:

You're kidding me.

Speaker 2:

And they had. They had lanterns. So all the officers had lanterns and whenever we walked we'd hold the lantern out in front of us and they did this cool little bit. It's not part of the ritual, but they got dispensation from the grand lodge to do it where they set the lodge at ease, so it's open. At that point you can do whatever is not necessarily part of the ritual.

Speaker 2:

Right, you're not changing anything. And we all did it like a procession inside the lodge room with our lanterns and took our stations, and the master comes up and holds the light as he goes around the whole lodge to check each officer and make sure he knows who they are.

Speaker 1:

Wow, and then he sits down.

Speaker 2:

It was well done.

Speaker 1:

Who was Worshipful Master?

Speaker 2:

Worshipful Roland Yeats. Wow, how cool was that. It was a past master's degree, so they had all their big shots out there. I don't know how I missed that. It was in pretty. I'm sorry you missed it. I'm sure you had fun.

Speaker 1:

No, it's my fault, I mean it's on the calendar out there. I mean, the information is available. I just don't. Had I known, I certainly would have been there.

Speaker 2:

See, Fred is too big of a celebrity. His calendar is overloaded now with Masonic things. He doesn't know what to do, where to go. We're going to hire a handler to just take in places and give him cue cards and be like just go up there and say that All right, now get in the car. Get in the car. We've got to go to the next place.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to hire a personal assistant, a handler, a handler.

Speaker 2:

Oh, is that what we?

Speaker 1:

call them now A handler. That person's going to have their hands full. Now, last night was one of my sons one of my four sons birthday and, yes, 36. And so we went over to the shrine, had a couple of premium cigars and some premium whiskies and didn't realize it was Thursday night and they had a great time and the place was packed.

Speaker 1:

There had to be 200 people there. I mean there was no room at the end. I mean it was absolutely packed and it was a great time, man. I really like it. It's really cool over there, man. They're doing a great job. I hope for those of you listening. I hope you've got a really active shrine in your area, because it's indispensable man for gathering and ours. They built a giant tiki hut. And of course this is Florida, so there's a tiki hut on every corner right next to the.

Speaker 1:

Starbucks, but they built a big tiki hut. They've got a restaurant, it's got pretty good food and it's just. It's just a well established location. It's been there since, I think, 81, if I'm not mistaken 1980, I think it was built.

Speaker 2:

Been there a long time. What's incredible about it is they had been losing lots of money.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there was some bad times.

Speaker 2:

And I think they probably were on the verge of considering selling that building, which is just in a great location in Sarasota. And yeah, the last couple of years the potentates and their officers have really. I mean, they had the idea for the tiki hut to try to pick up, you know, they basically got a restaurant bar in order to try to help pay the bills, because the dudes just weren't cutting it anymore, not even close. And they were losing money on that too. But they made a smart decision of hiring an actual restaurateur.

Speaker 2:

Shout out to Tommy A multi-year agreement and over the last two years they have 100% 180. Turn that thing around. I think they're actually making money.

Speaker 1:

They are making money, that is correct.

Speaker 2:

It's just popping in. The shrine itself is getting more involved in our district. They're hosting our grandmasters visits. They work with the Master Mason Association to arrange that. So I'm just so excited to be active in Masonry while all this is happening.

Speaker 1:

I agree it's a great time to be a Mason man. Yeah, and I was able to, as I was sitting there, one of my son's buddies who came by, a guy from Jersey, another fellow guy from Jersey, but anyway, this pretty young kid. He saw my ring and he asked me. He said so you're, are you a Mason? And I said yeah, and I'm also a Shriner. And he's like, wow, so I've been wanting to get into Masonry. And I was like, really, so he's coming down to the next open house, we're going to sit and talk a little bit and do a little bit of stuff, and what I didn't do and what I'm.

Speaker 1:

my two sons that live here in Sarasota, both of them, you know, are in their, in their mid 30s, and I don't say they know I'm a Mason, they know, they know how much I love it and enjoy it. They know I'm a Shriner, but I've said nothing by way of recruitment. But they keep asking these, these intuitive little questions here and there. So I'm, I'm, I'm just throwing the line out and just slowly dragging it back, you know. So hopefully they're going to, they're going to pop. I would say my one son, troy, would probably want to become a Mason before my other son, eric, would. But we'll see. We'll see. I said that on air to see how see how well I know my kids Do.

Speaker 2:

they listen. We'll see how it goes. They both listen Okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they're both out there listening.

Speaker 2:

They're listening. They'll definitely become Mason's. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1:

Let me rephrase that they both tell me they listen.

Speaker 2:

So I guess we'll find out.

Speaker 1:

If they listen, then they'll hear this and they'll call me up and say hey, man, I listen.

Speaker 2:

No one in my family listens Not my wife, not my kid, nobody.

Speaker 1:

My wife listens If I tell her hey, you should listen to this particular one then, she'll listen, but as regularly she does not listen, although she has, in fact she's, she's a subscriber to it. But yeah doesn't necessarily, you know, listen to all, which is fine, you know, hey, some we're, we're growing. I mean we're what are we now at 6,500? Yeah, yeah. Almost close to something like that, and it's growing more and more and the the YouTube channel is beginning to get subscribers as well.

Speaker 1:

So that's that's pretty exciting and again, we keep pounding it, but it's true we are going to do more in next season. We've got some new technology that we purchased that we're going to use, and the advertisements that you guys hear in the middle of the, in the middle of our show. That's actually paying us to do the show. So some of the costs that we've been footing have been have been wiped out, which is nice, so we're not paying any, any money to do this, which has always been the kind of the goal we're not trying to make money on it, but we don't want to have to shell money out every week either, because it can get very expensive oh yeah, so

Speaker 1:

yeah, so that's kind of an update by way of update. I do want to. I do want to mention that we did get some comments about the last podcast and I just want to briefly mention and I'm not going to mention who gave us, just I'm not going to who it was, but well, the comment was about the, the Ruffians, and this person's, this person's disagreement was is that we're not born as Ruffians?

Speaker 2:

This is somebody that likes to argue semantics.

Speaker 1:

I agree, I agree, yeah, he does. He gets hung up on words. That's correct. I don't know, he's a good brother and we love him, but yeah, sure.

Speaker 2:

And it's always good because you get the. The more somebody questions things or even disagrees, the more conversation has to happen.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So who's winning? Everybody.

Speaker 1:

Everybody's winning.

Speaker 2:

That's as long as you keep it clean above the board and don't insult each other.

Speaker 1:

It's awesome and I go back and I think about my comments, about being. You know that the Ruffian is in all of us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I, for me and I've said this before, everybody knows this that comes from my worldview, which is I am a Christian and from a Christian perspective, we hold to a doctrine of you know that, that original, original sin yes, I said it out loud and we hold to that doctor. So the Ruffian, in my faith tradition, represents that man, that old man that I was born with. You know, the one who does not, who has to be taught to do right. You know, I have to be taught to do right. It doesn't come natural to me. There is outside influences that come to me and teach me right and wrong. There is a law to be followed, there is a thing to you know, there is morality, there is right and wrong and we don't by nature follow it. Well, those comments about the Ruffians that came out of my worldview.

Speaker 1:

You may have a different worldview out there and we've been very big in this podcast about the fact that Masonry is not a religion, but it is made up of religious people who bring their faith traditions to it, and Masonry is a framework that should, when understood correctly, send you back to your faith tradition as a better, as a better man, as a smarter man, as a more open man. So it has for me. I'm certainly digging deeper into my relationship with my church and my faith and my desire to do what is right. If Masonry is a lot of things, but one thing it certainly is, it is a system of morality. Man.

Speaker 1:

It really is. It wants us to live good lives and there is a standard to be lived, you know.

Speaker 2:

It's a universal human standard of morality. It's not tied to a specific faith, and that's one of the things I love about it, because we, even like you, represent a huge part of, I think, florida Masonry. I think the majority of people have a similar background to yours Correct Spiritually.

Speaker 1:

Correct, that's right. Yeah, very much so.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm probably in the second biggest group, which is I'm not declared, I don't go to a church, I don't necessarily, you know, pray to Jesus or any other named person of a faith. I'm a more general, I take a general more approach to this and say I think I believe there's a God and respect that and I'm always trying to do the same thing. You are Like, get closer to that relationship and understand better, but not tied to the same doctrines.

Speaker 2:

You are and we're on the same journey, that's correct, we're doing the same things and we're improving ourselves in the same way, even though we don't have exactly the same path spiritually and I think that's awesome because we sit with brothers who are Muslims. Yeah and pagan and probably all kinds of other things out there that I'm not so good with labels these days. There's a lot of them and I can't keep up with all of them I try to respect everybody's views though.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right. Buddhists and Muslims and people who just have made a profession to deity, I don't know, I guess that would be gnostic, right? They, I don't know, or you know.

Speaker 2:

I'm not sure, but I believe there is a God but I have no idea where to go.

Speaker 1:

Or what to do there you go, you know I'm open, which is okay. You know it's all okay. Here's my thing is-.

Speaker 2:

This might help them even find their path. Because you talk to so many different people, something might trigger you and be like that's really interesting. I think I can come to your church, or can I come to your temple?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right. You know, my faith requires me to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks me for the hope that lies within me, and I am prepared. I know what I believe and I know why I believe it. If somebody asks me about my faith because they're interested in it, I can sit down with them over coffee and I can explain it to them. I'm commanded to be ready at all times to do that and I am.

Speaker 1:

The beauty about masonry is is I get to sit down with men from all different persuasions and together we have a common goal, which is to better ourselves, in our community, our families and our lives. And you know, if that ever comes up, I'm prepared to talk, but I'm not required, within the walls and halls of masonry, to beat people over the head with my particular faith tradition. Everybody knows where I stand. Everybody knows what I believe. If you don't know what I believe, just dig out the Westminster Confession of Faith and read it. That's what I believe. I mean it's, it's, it's there. But the beauty I don't know how we got off on this the beauty, in my opinion of masonry is that all faiths I mean so much. So if you think about the founding of this country yeah, and the different faiths and non-faiths of men that came together to, to to build the founding of this nation, was built in the lodges, in the churches and the lodges of of the United States of early America. It's where it all came from.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You can't bring every single community together within a certain denominated church. It doesn't it just it. It maybe it could work, but I've just never seen it work. But you can. You can bring a vast amount of people from different faith traditions from all over the world together within a lodge and you can get something done. You know, and like the building and framing of a nation based on a constitutional republic, which required a lot of wisdom you know to put together. You know is based on we won't go into all where what, what it was based on.

Speaker 2:

But it's like a marriage. You know, these people had seen multiple forms of government. They'd seen a government controlled by a person, a sectarian person, a family dynasty. They'd seen governments controlled by religious leadership. They'd seen it all at that point, and I look at it as they had an opportunity to start fresh. So they looked at all of the experiences they had and said you know what? This is probably the way to go, based on all these mistakes we've seen Right and I think that was like the best chance for survival of a new country.

Speaker 1:

It was absolute genius. What they did, you know, they formed a system of, of checks and balances within three branches, of a, of a, of a government system they knew was going to become an absolute Leviathan and based on, you know, it was based on a lot of the, the ancient Greek writings about democracy. But we don't have a pure democracy, we have a constitutional republic which is based on unchanging doctrines or unchanging written laws and concepts that you know. The first amendment, the second amendment, the honoring all the amendments and stuff. Those don't change. Men change. We know King George changed Right.

Speaker 1:

That's why we fought the revolutionary war, because he changed he. He he did not follow through with the commitments he made. He's a king, he has the right to do that. We didn't want that. They formed a different idea. That idea was based on individual freedom and liberty and that your rights are granted to you by God, not by another man, just because he has a title of a, of a, of a government potentate. And that concept and all of the details of how they framed it, how they put it together, they argued it out, they hammered it out was genius. It's absolute genius and it lasted, in my opinion, a good 150 to two, almost 200 years. I don't think we have that form of government currently.

Speaker 2:

No, definitely, and I think we're.

Speaker 1:

we're probably in for a wild ride over the next decade to see where it plays out. Maybe it'll go back to where it was, maybe it won't, I don't know. But the point that I was making is valid. The genius of of the, the concept of the constitution of the United States, was in fact hammered out by masons man in the Masonic lodges. I, I, you know. It's just true. You can't deny it.

Speaker 2:

So this started because you were talking about the fact that there are people can be born roughians, or that we have rough yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1:

That's right. I, I believe that, thank you, thank you. Thank you, we talked about it before we went on air. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2:

I'm a little slow today, but yeah, so so, um, the argument was the argument against our what. What was being said on the show was that it's not true. You can't uh, rough it and never gets the word. Or rough you will never be in control of anything, including yourself, but that you're saying. That wasn't really the point.

Speaker 1:

But like if you listen to the what.

Speaker 2:

What was being said? If you listen to the show, the idea of it was, uh, not so specifically the roughians as pertaining to the ritual, like it's not in the story.

Speaker 1:

Right, it's true.

Speaker 2:

Hypothetically though, you know, for the purposes of trying to use alliteration to convey a concept or idea. You said the aspects of the roughians are inside of us. All Right, Like the bad things, the bad, you know the devil on your shoulder, the person who's giving you bad ideas, or that leech that feeds you that negative thought all day you know, whenever you got to do something, it's telling you you're going to fail. This is going to suck Right. That's the roughian you were referencing, I think.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and if you, if you doubt it, um, just go downstairs to where your toddlers are and, before they can even talk, look at the way they treat each other and look at how they how that no one has to.

Speaker 2:

Fear of animals.

Speaker 1:

Well, no one has to teach them to be selfish.

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker 1:

No one has to teach them, you know to be all about themselves.

Speaker 1:

And if you don't, there's a great analogy If you a little, uh, you know a newborn baby, you hold that child in your arms and he's, he's, laughing and giggling. And he sees the necklace on your neck and he wants to grab for it. And you push his hand away and he gets all red in the face and he tries again and he, he's, he's angry and he starts to cry and his face gets red and his hands clench. Well, transpose that darling little baby to a 250 pound man with the same intellect as that baby. That 250 pound man will kill you for that necklace.

Speaker 1:

He will kill you. It's in him and it's there, it's, it's absolutely there. So that's my view, come my worldview. Um, that's a good analogy to explain my worldview. It's in us that that aspect is in us. That's why masonry is indispensable, said George Washington, for the raising of young men. It is absolutely indispensable for teaching young men and women. But we're a fraternity. For teaching any human being, any human society that uh to, to get along in this world as a society of people who want to be productive and safe and harmonious and find joy and happiness, uh the, the rules and laws instituted by men for the benefit of men are indispensable. We have to teach them, we have to learn them. Masonry does a good job of that.

Speaker 2:

We got to get some more of our government leadership into masonry. Let's get started on that.

Speaker 1:

Everybody. Yes, yes, that would be. That would not be a bad thing. They could use this.

Speaker 2:

That would not be a bad thing.

Speaker 1:

Especially the the Illuminati guy. Shout out to the Illuminati guys you guys got all the money, man.

Speaker 2:

Appreciate stealing my images and using them so that you can make money.

Speaker 1:

Yes, oh, you're lovely, I love those guys. Illuminati hey, what, what are?

Speaker 2:

we talking about? I have no idea.

Speaker 1:

Well actually we're going to go to what we always talk about eventually.

Speaker 2:

Uh, out of out of the peanut butter, the peanut butter yeah.

Speaker 1:

Peanut butter and jelly on a bagel.

Speaker 2:

Peanut butter jelly time.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that just gives me a sugar buzz like off the chart.

Speaker 2:

Anyway.

Speaker 1:

Uh, yeah, right, we are just rabbit trails after rabbit trail and the rabbit trails are getting more absurd. So we just talked about bagels, peanut butter and, uh, god and God. So yeah, with worldviews and all of that, and we ended on peanut butter.

Speaker 2:

Good morning to you.

Speaker 1:

Good morning.

Speaker 1:

So we are in the mentors manual, the revised 2008 GL 217. This manual is also indispensable If you want to understand the basics of our craft. You need to get this out, dust it off and begin to make notes. If you can see mine, mine is riddled with notes and highlights all through it, because we must know what we believe and we must know why we believe it. And the only way you're going to do that is by taking time, uh, to study it on your own, uh, without social media, without YouTube. Actually read the material and digest it into your own life, take what works and get rid of what doesn't you know.

Speaker 1:

So anyway, we are on. What is it? 5.5., 5.22., 5.22. Thank you, brother. That's low 12. Yes, low, 12. So, as we do, and then we'll just have a little conversation about it, and I know everybody on the radio right now is probably like hurry up my God. 25 minutes of this you're killing us All.

Speaker 2:

Right, you can fast forward. Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but but no, don't fast forward.

Speaker 2:

No, don't robbing yourself. Clever banter Gee All right.

Speaker 1:

Uh, low, low, 12. Uh, 5.22. On page 24 of the mentors manual. The number 12 in ancient symbolism denotes completion. Whether this meaning arose from the 12 signs of the zodiac or because the most stable geometric figure, the cube, has 12 distinct edges, is not known. The number 12 did denote a thing fulfilled and was therefore an emblem of human life. High 12 denoted noon, when the sun was at its zenith, while low 12 denotes midnight, the blackest of the night. Just as 13 and evil omen follows 12, so does death follow life. Therefore, the solemn stroke of 12 marked the completion of human existence in this life and the coming of death. Masonically, therefore, low 12 is a symbol of death. I mean, that is a great statement. That is a good statement, man.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean we're talking about this because it's part of our ritual. It's said in the ritual at a certain point and then later in the lecture it's explained that low 12 means midnight, but that all happened so fast. People probably don't realize that they get this information, so I'm so glad that they put this in the mentors manual. It's just a little paragraph, but it's something to think about. They also uh, there's so many symbols that we talk about in the master Mason degree.

Speaker 2:

One of them is the hourglass which we explained in the lecture is a symbol of human life, and now we're saying that low 12 and time in general is an emblem of human life.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

It's reinforcing what we talk about in the lecture, and we also talk about high 12. So does that make high 12 the opposite of low 12? Does that mean high 12 signifies life? It's, low 12 signifies death?

Speaker 1:

High 12, um. According to this, I believe, says that it signifies completion. Uh number 12 is a is a a number of completion High 12 denotes noon, when the sun was at its enus. Zenith Enus, uh. Enus went home, uh, while low 12 denote so it doesn't really get too much and number 12 did denote a thing fulfilled and was therefore an emblem of human life.

Speaker 2:

So yeah.

Speaker 1:

So high 12 is an emblem of human life, not necessarily the beginning of life, but an emblem of life. Low 12 is and that's what that's what this is discussing Low 12 is, the is the end of that life. It denotes the ultimate end which we will all meet, and Masonry does a good job of forcing us to face our own, our own mortality.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you know, that's why that's why you know the, the people don't understand Masonry. They see skulls and they see all this stuff and they think it's some nefarious thing that we're doing. And what we're doing is we are facing our own mortality. The what, what, what was the one thing that they outlawed?

Speaker 2:

in the ritual, the coffin yeah.

Speaker 1:

The coffin and the the mirror reflected.

Speaker 2:

Yes, the, the uh yeah, the room of reflection or the uh, I can't recall the name, but you know.

Speaker 1:

Somebody out there is shouting it. Email us, please, yeah. Chamber of reflection. Chamber of reflection. I am so sad that that is no longer part of the ritual. That is so powerful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Can we explain, since it's no longer part of the ritual, can we say what it is? Yeah, what it was.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. The chamber of reflection was, uh, before the ritual. They would put the potential candidate in the room by himself in the dark, and the only light would be a candle on a table. On that table would be a mirror so that the candidate could see himself, and there would also be a skull and crossbones at the foot of the mirror. So for about 20 to 30 minutes the candidate was left to look at the remnants of the dead body and see his own reflection.

Speaker 1:

Right. I mean, I don't know how much more obvious that could be. I need to go home and do that like at least once a week, man.

Speaker 2:

I mean that'll put you in a state, I think, of more thinking about your own mortality. You see the skull of a dead person and you see your own face, right. So what's the goal? Why? Why do that? I think it's the purpose, uh, is to put you in a time because it's in the ritual says. This isn't meant to be frivolous, or, um, it's not meant to be unseemly, it's not meant to be hazing, but the nature of people is they, they live their lives, they come to a degree and they're having some fun, they're making some jokes and the candidate doesn't. It's not impressed so fully on the candidate the seriousness of what he's doing yeah, of what the work he's about to go undergo.

Speaker 2:

So, in my opinion, the removal of this from the ritual is a detriment to the, to the fraternity as a whole, because we're not giving them proper time to. It's a meditative state, absolutely, that you're putting them into. They're able to settle themselves, calm themselves, they're with their own thoughts and it's putting them into a place of thinking about their own mortality. That's a good point to start from.

Speaker 1:

I think so yeah, to start anything from.

Speaker 2:

But what we do is we shove them in a room, we say change your clothes, we say a few words and then, when you do the ritual, and they didn't have time to spiritually, mentally, prepare themselves. So maybe we need to think of another way that we can do this in our lodge that doesn't violate rules of brand lodge but, still allows us to us to get them to a state where they're going to have a better experience.

Speaker 1:

I saw a painting and I don't know. I don't know if we could get it, but it was. It was a painting of the mirror with the skull, the skull and the crossbones and a candle in front of it, and there was no no fit. There was no face of reflection, but it was a picture of what it would look like. Yeah, so maybe we should hang that in the outer room.

Speaker 2:

Oh, the picture, not the actual thing, because you have art right.

Speaker 1:

Right, you can have art on the wall, yeah, and then and then at least you know in the pre-initiative, you know before when you're talking to them, you can. You can bring that moment back to seriousness. I get very upset with brothers who are in that room. Yeah with candidates who are cutting up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's all the time. You see it in every line, as the Tyler man.

Speaker 1:

I put an end to it almost immediately. I really don't care good, it's like knock it off, let's stop. You know, I want, I want them to have what I.

Speaker 2:

I didn't get that when we, when I can, people didn't, I didn't know right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so and this, if we don't forget to say it's guys, if we don't take this seriously, why should anybody else?

Speaker 2:

right.

Speaker 1:

Why should anyone else take Masonry seriously if we don't? And I think I, you know I, I think the, the, there are those above us and in the Grand Line too. I think there there is a, a desire that comes down to us from from Grand Lodge. I say, hey, take this more seriously, more seriously. Yes you know they, they want us to and that's one of the reasons why I know it's not popular, but that that dress code that came down.

Speaker 1:

Yes bringing us back to. Hey, you know you, you're not allowed to wear shorts in here, man you know, you need to wear you, you need to wear proper attire what Fred speaking about is.

Speaker 2:

In Florida our Grandmaster put a ruling in decision out.

Speaker 2:

Yes, he did that in the state of Florida we're gonna have a minimum expectation for people that come to state it and call communications and that minimum, as I understood he wrote it, is slacks and a dress shirt and tie with a jacket or a lodge Polo shirt. Right, right, that's the minimum expectation. Now in Florida I've been in lodges and I've seen overalls, I've seen t-shirts, I've seen shorts, I've seen crocs. Right right, yeah, so I get it. I think I get why they're doing it. I don't think that it's going to help Turn out at lodges, but I think this might be a signal from our Grand Lodge that they don't care as much about that as they do about people taking the work Seriously and taking themselves seriously and, and I don't know, I'm really not sure how I feel about that I want them to take the work seriously.

Speaker 1:

I agree, um, I think that men, if presented correctly, good men are always gonna step up. You know they're always gonna step up and do what and do what is right and required of them. You know, if it look, look, we're masons man, let's hope so if Grand Lodge requires this of us, then we need to do it right, have to do it we, even if we don't agree with it. Right, we should do it to show that we are not hypocritical masons, but we are true, true masons.

Speaker 2:

Man, we're obedient to the line you do it and if you disagree with it, you get some other people that agree with you and you write some legislation and you submit it and you go talk about it and you get it passed and everyone would benefit from that action.

Speaker 1:

Everyone would be a better man because of it. Because the system is set up in such a way where you, if you, if you felt strongly about it and you were able to affect that kind of change. Think about the education you would get along along the way and the men that you would meet and the hearts and minds you would change and educate and inform, including your own, along the way, man, I mean, that's just what it's all about even if it doesn't pass, try again, reward it, figure out what people didn't like.

Speaker 2:

Just keep moving forward with you know this is how you improve the fraternity is by trying to help pass laws that are gonna improve it. And it survives based on people doing that, and and this is how we adapt over time speaking of the number 12. Low 12. I guess we got that one beaten down.

Speaker 1:

But I I like the the reference to the number 13,. You know, just as the number 13, an evil omen follows 12, so does death follow life. I love that statement. I think it's it's, it's poetic, it's profound, you know.

Speaker 2:

You know I was thinking that about when you were talking this. I this is the the connected pieces of Freemasonry boggle the mind. The genius of this system.

Speaker 2:

So, we're talking about the inter-apprentice, your newborn, the fellow craft. You're now an adult, in the middle age and gaining education, and in the master Mason degree. Here we talk about your eyesight failing, your teeth falling out, your body failing desire, going away and of your eventual death. And so we say low 12 is the culmination of that, your active, which is the most solemn event in a man's life, correct?

Speaker 1:

his death right.

Speaker 2:

And we should always hold that moment of a person's life in reverence, right, it's important. And now, high 12 being the opposite of that, we reference high 12 when we go out of working to refreshment, and so maybe I guess that could be taken to symbolize the turning point in a man's life where he's done enough work to warrant some rest and that's a part, you know, the season of his life where he's reached the apex and now he's gonna start relaxing.

Speaker 1:

And the rest of that Mason, master, mason degree picks up from that point where it's about failing and and deterioration and death right, beautiful symbolism, right, it's absolutely is the next one, and I'm reading this cold, so I have not this particular one, I have not read through with a cold, with a cold. So the five points of fellowship, and I'm interested to see how this, how this words out, because I don't think we can really there's not a lot here. We can't talk.

Speaker 2:

We can talk about so let's try, not particulars.

Speaker 1:

This is in the pot. This is a published work, so what I'm going to read you is Legal for me to read out loud. Anyone can read it, it's online, it's published, so I'm gonna do that now. The five points of fellowship these five points are symbolized by the the pen to by the pen Talfa, by the pen Talfa, or five pointed star. I guess they don't want to call it a pentagram, right? They reference it in here.

Speaker 1:

Oh, did they, okay yeah the right symbolized by the pen, the pen fella, the pen Talfa and or five pointed star. The connection of this Geographical figure with the builders art is not readily apparent. Reachers research has shown that it was used Exclusively, extensively in determining some of the designs for this. For the splendid castles and cathedrals of medieval times, in the center of the pen fella, as Often used by masons, is usually seen two clasped hands. These hands were the ancient symbol of the god of Phytus. The entire symbol signifies to the Mason that both fidelity and readiness to aid each other are the found Are to be found in the order. Thus the star becomes the symbol of true Brotherhood. The five points of fellowship becomes a true sign of brotherhood.

Speaker 2:

Here's a couple things on that.

Speaker 1:

Sorry for butchering that. I'll try to read it again.

Speaker 2:

But pentalfa, Pentalfa never heard of that. So the five points of fellowship we're told in the lecture are as secret as any of the ceremonies of this degree, right? So that right there tells us we're not going to talk about we're not gonna say what those are correct, but they are important, very important to free masonry and you see that it has some.

Speaker 2:

The Grand Lodge of Florida is telling us we've lost the knowledge we don't really know, and so they say I've done some research and this is what it might be related to. Right, I'm disappointed because I see a lot of people posting pictures of this online like it's nothing. Masons sharing pictures of diagrams of people in this position. Don't do that. We're told that the five points of fellowship are a secret, as any of the ceremonies of the master mason degree. Stop sharing it, it's for us.

Speaker 1:

It's for us, and for us only that's right.

Speaker 2:

We don't even know fully why, but it must be important. So this, I think, would be great to do some research on yeah, I agree, really good. But the point of the five points of fellowship is to teach us how connected we are and how two brothers together is sharing. Everything is Really the whole point of free masonry, right? I think that's why they're so secret, because it speaks to the heart of who we are supposed to be right? Every point of the five points is Specifically telling us how to treat each other.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, that's right, yeah that's right, that makes sense, and I talked to People that come into masonry all the time, and one of the one of the main reasons you hear over and over again it's because I just want, I want fellowship with other men. I don't have any friends, you know I, I don't have any connections, and this, I want to be part of something that's bigger than myself and and that that entire concept of fellowship Right and and this is the five points of fellowship, it gives us that framework of of how and why we are in fellowship and what it means. You know it and you're right. You could study that and it could go really, really deep. I think that might be something we might want to prepare for the next Esoteric discussion group that we have. Those. That would probably be because we could share it in the presence of Of other nations yes, in my question group, right?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, yeah. Or do it as education in the stated meeting, right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, close it up and and do and go through it. I think it would be indispensable. One more word of the day, by the way, indispensable in the spin civil.

Speaker 2:

One more point. This is a was one sentence in this second paragraph. You read these it's talking about two clasped hands, usually shown in the center of a pentalfa right right.

Speaker 2:

These hands were the ancient symbols of the god Phidese. Now, if you recall, in the entered apprentice degree, during the lecture there is a point where we talk about Two clasped hands and what that represents. Right, and we say our ancient brethren worship God under the name Phidese or fidelity. So that caught my mind, because I give these lectures all the time and I've never really researched even how to pronounce Phidese. So I did that.

Speaker 2:

And Phidese was the god of trust and good faith, and Roman paganism, right, didn't know that she One is was one of the original virtues to be considered an actual religious divinity. Phidese is everything that is required for honor and credibility, from fidelity in marriage to contractual arrangements in the obligation soldiers owed to Rome. Phidese also means reliability, reliability between two parties, which is always reciprocal, and the bedrock of relations between people in their communities. And then it was turned into a Roman deity and from which we gain the English word fidelity. The Roman deity may have an example in Regulus, who refuses to save himself the expense of the Republic. The regulars defied his own best interest for those of his country.

Speaker 2:

This act alone he acted with Phidese, which we say fidelity right right and in the entered apprentice degree we say we worship D Neon of the name Phidese or fidelity. Now, in the master Mason degree, we're relating the two clasped hands in relation to the five points of fellowship, which is talking about reliability between two parties right and the deity that represented that in Roman times.

Speaker 1:

So when Fred says, there's a lot here, there's a lot here, there's a lot here, you know, and I just love that the symbolism of the female, you know, and of course in Roman paganism she was known, she was actual deity. They, you know, and they, they worship these deities. But I think about, in the, in in the book of Proverbs, the book in the, in the scriptures written by King Solomon, you know, he, he creates this, this image of two sisters, the, the two sisters I, I wisdom dwell with my sister, prudence and and if you look down through history, all of these imageries are always justice, lady, justice, you know she's blindfolded yeah you know, and, and it's always, it's always these, the, the image is this woman who symbolizes this concept or idea.

Speaker 1:

You know, and that's that's what I see here. You know, obviously for me, you know, I don't bow down to the deity Phidis at all, you know.

Speaker 2:

But Recognize that this was an idea that people absolutely exactly their lives by at some point right and I just, I think it's just, it's just so profound.

Speaker 1:

You know that the entire symbol signifies to the Mason that both fidelity and readiness to aid each other are the Are to be found in the order. Thus the star becomes the symbol of true brotherhood and that and fidelity. You know that that concept of being completely loyal To your, to your brother's, concerns and to his life, is, is where. Where are we? Where are you gonna go and find that today?

Speaker 2:

Where are you?

Speaker 1:

going out there, bro, to find a group of men who who have your best interest at heart and and are taught to do so along with yourself, in an active lodge on a continuing basis. I, I hear this stuff. I hear this stuff three times a week when I go. Chris and I go to two different degrees and we watch degrees. Well, chris participates in them. You do too. I do too when he, when he recruits me, in which I I'm very thankful for.

Speaker 2:

We were at a master Mason degree, everybody standing around in the break and I'm like, hey, you got any? Can this girl here? Because this guy's got nothing to do though. Oh my god, thank you. Yes, yes, yes, and I snatched him up and put clothes on him and taught him how to do that, you know.

Speaker 1:

I'm in a robe and I'm a catcher man. I'm like what's a catcher? It's like oh, a catcher.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm in, okay, cool that's what we do for our brothers.

Speaker 1:

That's what we do for our brother and I'm glad you did it. I'm glad you did it because it just it was so much more meaningful. But right back the point, and what I love about this and I think one of the main things of Reason why we're seeing Masonry becoming more and more popular and our numbers are growing is because of that reason. The men are looking for other men who have their back. You know, and, and in Masonry you have that and and it's growing, it's it's growing, it's getting better. There are people like me who have recently in the I think I've been here what two and a half years now or so or less, maybe somewhere around there. But people like me came in and there's a wave of people coming in who want Masonry to go back to the way it was.

Speaker 1:

We want all the rituals to be followed. We want the concepts to be taught and we want people to take it very, very seriously, because we want to. We want to put it back To where it was in in our culture and community, because it's so needed.

Speaker 2:

This is Ironic to me when you say that, because I was. I'm a little older in Freemasonry so I was there when your class was coming through and a lot of the Elders in our lodge hear young guys like from your generation that came through saying I'm not young, but hey, we know.

Speaker 1:

But in Masonry you're young. Young in Masonry. Oh, I'm young again.

Speaker 2:

You are young again, yeah, and, and literally you're young. Age, average age for you. Help bring it down, but you know when was?

Speaker 1:

I going with that.

Speaker 2:

How was I going with that?

Speaker 1:

Oh.

Speaker 2:

I know what it was. Yeah, you guys are saying Masonry is changing. Right, and for the exact reasons you just explained, changing for the better, going back to the original being, who we're supposed to be, is what you're saying when you say Masonry is changing. But we, what the older guard hears when you say Masonry is changing is oh god, these guys want to turn this into something that's not Masonic right right.

Speaker 2:

And the irony of it is a lot of the elder guys are so set in their ways that aren't necessarily Masonic. The idea of going back to the true meaning of masonry would also probably scare them. Right, yeah, because they like the way they've changed it to be.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, they like where they're at.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but in reality we all gotta fight to go back to the truth and get to the most clear light of what masonry should be. And the best way we can do that is to live it. If you really really wanna help masonry become a thing in the world, live it in your life. Yeah, right, live it home with your family at work, wherever that is, and whatever you do in your life, live it masonically. Do everything you do masonically. That's the best way you can help the fraternity.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And one more point. You were talking about law, the symbol of law as a woman right.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, in robes, and justice, yeah, and justice.

Speaker 2:

There's a picture in Wikipedia of Thaitis on a Pompeian coin. So there's a depiction of what they thought Thaitis you know how they represented her and she's represented as a young woman crowned with an olive or laurel wreath, holding in her hand a turtle, dove in one hand and fruits or grains or military ensign and the other, and she's got a white veil. So the representation of Thaitis on this coin. You wouldn't know the difference between Lady Liberty. It looks like, you know, at first glance, exactly like the representation we use of Liberty and, you know, maybe that makes sense. Maybe there's a tie between this Thaitis and the goddess of Liberty that we put all over our laws and buildings today, because we're talking about reliability between two parties.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And reciprocity of trust, reciprocity of trust and justice between us, the relationships of our community.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, without which no society can survive. You can't survive. Without it, without the reliability and trust between parties, everything stops. You know, and that's what's happening now. We're grinding to a halt because nobody can trust anybody and those who were charged with keeping you know, the court system is in an absolute mess these days, you know, and the way law is done or not done is just an absolute mess and without fidelity, without liberty, justice, without all of these representations. You could just see the representation of the statues of the ladies you know out there of fidelity, and you can see Lady Justice and you can see prudence and wisdom.

Speaker 1:

And temperance and all these concepts, and we're turning our back on all of them. And look at what's going on out there. It's so bad. We're suffering and Masonry is attempting in my opinion, we are attempting to turn the table back to.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Because a country will go the way its young men go, and it's just. I know that sounds like a very sexist comment and maybe you think it is, but it's true. A country will always go the way that its young men go, and our young men are not going in the way of fidelity, they're going in the way of self-doubt and fear and withdrawal. One word that I could use to explain the young men that are in my life that have no direction is withdrawal. They just don't want the hassle of communal life anymore. I was sitting with some young men last night and they're all single and the way they talk it's like, yeah, I would love to get in a relationship, but I'm just very cautious. They're all so cautious.

Speaker 2:

Hands off Right. Oh, I'm so surprised by that. It's so true. They're so cautious, they're afraid and connected.

Speaker 1:

It's no small thing, you could lose everything, oh yeah. As a young man, getting into a relationship in our society.

Speaker 2:

My son is turned 18, and he's going to college and I was having a long talk with him. He's staying with me for a couple months before he goes off to college.

Speaker 1:

That way you can have lots of long talks with him.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, actually I do.

Speaker 1:

Captive audience.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, he wants to, you know, and he was telling me you don't understand Dad. I am terrified Because, even if I meet someone and we're having a good time and we go back and we're having a consensual experience, in the back of my mind I'm always hoping that this is OK. Yeah right, I'm asking is it OK? I'm hearing it's OK, but I feel like that could change at any moment.

Speaker 1:

Because it can.

Speaker 2:

And he's terrified. Imagine going through life terrified of having an intimate relationship with someone. Right, no Because he wants to be a doctor. He's like I could lose everything if somebody thought that I did something inappropriate and so he is afraid to have an honest, intimate relationship with someone of his age, as in my age. A child, an adult child, but still that's no way to go through life. Where our society needs to. Really we need more masons out there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree, it's an absolute jungle out there for the young man. And I tell young men, I told my son Troy, focus on your studies, man, there's plenty of time for all that. Focus on your studies, because I've had that conversation too. My other son, eric, is married, and my youngest son, danny, is also married. Both of them are happily married. My one son has four children.

Speaker 2:

Woo, big laughter, Danny.

Speaker 1:

Shout out to Danny, let's go, boy, let's go. I need some grandsons.

Speaker 2:

Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. Make babies for me. Make some babies. Guy needs a life. Let him have his life.

Speaker 1:

But what I told my son Troy is look if you're not all right, so fine. The dating scene is treacherous.

Speaker 1:

It's shark-filled waters you don't want anything to do with it. Then throw yourself into your studies for a couple, five years. Make a plan. Get out of debt, save some money, buy a nice car. Whatever it is that you want to do, work on you. Don't get involved in all these crazy relationships. You don't necessarily need it. You won't die. You won't die. You'll probably be a better man for it and maybe somewhere along the way you'll meet that one woman who's actually the one who's going to stay with you for your life. Because, like I told him about his mother, his mother was worth waiting for in my life.

Speaker 1:

She was worth waiting for and I've been through a lot of hell in those relationships because it is a jungle out there, but the one is worth it. Any guy out there who has a relationship, a marriage, with the one woman knows what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2:

My wife is my very best friend.

Speaker 1:

She is my confidant and always has my back. I always have her and there's nothing else in the world gifted to us by our creator than that relationship, and it's worth working towards and waiting for. That's my message today for all the young men listening.

Speaker 2:

Have some fidelity.

Speaker 1:

Have some fidelity.

Speaker 2:

So you see, this is how we get ourselves into trouble. Two paragraphs in the mentors manual. Most people would be like blah, blah blah. We know about this. We just talked about it for 20 minutes.

Speaker 1:

Right, we could go another 30 minutes on. We could go all day on this stuff. Absolutely so we have to try to stay. It's just so interesting Well now a lot of the emails that we get are telling us that a lot of these rabbit trails you guys like the way Chris and I go down these roads is actually helpful for a lot of people.

Speaker 2:

That's good, because that's really all you're going to get, because this is it guys.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, this is how it works so good. Although I would say that our symposium talk that we did was very structured, went point by point, and I thought it was really good. Although we did find some rabbit trails to enjoy along the way, we did stick on tasks, my little gifts to our presentation.

Speaker 2:

That's right. That's right. That's all I got.

Speaker 1:

And I'm excited that it is a possibility that we might be asked to speak at Grand Lodge.

Speaker 2:

just briefly, I've reached back out to see. If he wants that to happen, I'm down with that man.

Speaker 1:

Give me the stage, baby, Give me the stage. Oh, I've seen it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you'll be crowd surfing out there.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, man, I will be crowd surfing. Anyway, it would be an honor and a privilege.

Speaker 2:

Well, my old wife told me last night she might not go.

Speaker 1:

Why.

Speaker 2:

I just got my son's graduating this month and we did the Key West thing. Oh, OK. She has a trip, so it's just a lot.

Speaker 1:

So she's going to take a break.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I think I might be flying solo out there for the first time.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

Which means more time for interviews, more time for interviews, woo-hoo, woo-hoo.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, there's a side note. Well, we'll miss her for sure. We will absolutely miss her. I was kind of looking forward to her being there.

Speaker 2:

We'll hang out. We'll hang out and we've got a More work will get done this way.

Speaker 1:

That's true, and we are going to be very busy because we have an announcement to make, which we're not going to make today, about something we're pretty excited about around here, which we're really going to reveal at Grand Lodge, basically, but please, check us out at Grand Lodge. If you're a fan of the show.

Speaker 2:

There's going to be some special news for you.

Speaker 1:

There'll be some special news and we just want to meet you guys and shake hands. We want to shake some hands and kiss some babies, man.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, don't be a baby, man, babies.

Speaker 1:

Don't be a baby or you'll have to have a big wet kiss from Chris, which was not a good thing.

Speaker 2:

I will do it. He will do it. I will do it Before we're warned.

Speaker 1:

Do we want to go on to the next one? The next one is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Now this one. This has a lot in there and I have a little bit of a disagreement, sort of in here.

Speaker 2:

So Well, this is going to. I'm curious to see how this plays out between us, because I also have some ideas about this. All right, all right, well, let's do it.

Speaker 1:

So let's do it. Let's do this, all right. So the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the lion, from the earliest times of recorded history has been a symbol of might and royalty. It was placed on the standard of the tribe of Judah because it was the royal tribe of the Hebrew nation. The kings of Judah were therefore called the lion, the lion of the tribe of Judah. This was one of the titles of King Solomon. This is the literal meaning of the term, but it also has a symbolic one.

Speaker 1:

The Jewish idea of the Messiah was that of a mighty temporal king. He was designated the Lion of the tribe of Judah, for it was from this tribe that all rulers came. The expression does not of necessity referred to Jesus of Nazareth, though the Christian Mason may so interpret the name if he desires. The Lion of the tribe of Judah also describes the Messiah of the Jewish Mason or the mediator of some of the ancient religions of the East whose worshipers are masons. Freedom of choice as to the application of these symbols is one of the reasons for the growth of Freemasonry over the centuries.

Speaker 2:

Hoo-yah, there you go, wow, freedom of choice as to the application of the symbols. Yeah right, freedom of choice.

Speaker 1:

Freedom of choice, and one of the reasons why I get that last part there, one of the reasons for the growth of Freemasonry over the centuries, is that application Now for Christians. If you're a Christian who holds to the scriptures, you know that the lion of the tribe of Judah is in fact the Lord Jesus Christ. That's what we believe.

Speaker 2:

There you go.

Speaker 1:

And it's a prophetic utterance. Here goes the voice. It's a prophetic utterance of the coming of Messiah and that's very unique, a very unique belief of the Christian faith.

Speaker 2:

Actually, it's the Jews who termed the coin the lion of the tribe of Judah, because they thought the Messiah was going to be a warrior. Right they were.

Speaker 1:

And even in the days of ancient Palestine, when the Lord was walking the earth, they were constantly asking him are you now going to restore Israel? Are you the one, are you the conquering military king who's going to? Are you the new Joshua, the new Moses? And his answer was always that's not why I came, man.

Speaker 2:

That's not why I came.

Speaker 1:

You've misinterpreted this.

Speaker 2:

This is the split from Judaism to Christianity happens right here. Well, this is it?

Speaker 1:

Yes right, the split. Yeah, that's a good point, the split is over Messiah who's? Messiah? Did he come? Has he come yet?

Speaker 2:

Because they're like where is he? Where is he? And then Christian said this is the Messiah.

Speaker 1:

Right, we have a Messiah. And the Jews said I don't think so.

Speaker 2:

He didn't deliver us. That's what our Messiah is supposed to do.

Speaker 1:

Well, and they were offended because this particular Messiah came into their temple and insulted them about the way they were doing things, but he was a Jew at the time.

Speaker 2:

He was a rabbi. Think about that.

Speaker 1:

Well, he was an insider.

Speaker 2:

It's not like he came in as an outside third party.

Speaker 1:

His mother and stepfather were from the tribe of. They were from Bethlehem of the tribe of Judah man.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, he grew up in this culture, was raised in the Jewish faith and was preaching as a rabbi.

Speaker 1:

He was found the story early on and I think it's in the Gospel of Matthew, where he was as a little boy. They'd gone up to the temple once a year. As a Jew, you had to go up to the temple when it was your time to offer the sacrifices, and then you come home. It was a big event. It was like Christmas on steroids for these folks and they travel there. Well, on the way home they lost their child. They were like where is Yeshua? He's gone, we don't know where he is. So they turned around and went all the way back and they found him in the temple sitting down with the head rabbis arguing theology.

Speaker 2:

Nice.

Speaker 1:

And his mother asked him what have you done this to us? He said come on, mom, you had to know that I had to be in the temple. As exact words, I had to be in my father's house. You know that. And she was just like, oh right, right. The angel spoke to me before you were born. That's right, got it.

Speaker 2:

This is the heart of Freemasonry. It's giving you multiple ways to interpret the same symbol that are true for all sides that look at it. You can look at it as Solomon was. I mean that was one of his, I guess titles. He had was the lion it was it absolutely was.

Speaker 1:

Well, his father, David, this is the lion.

Speaker 2:

He was a lion.

Speaker 1:

He was clearly a lion. But let me just say this it's like you said my faith is what I believe and I know why I believe it.

Speaker 2:

But the beauty of it and this whole man reaffirms it for you. It does. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1:

And you know, and I'll just say this, the Christian faith has not done a good job at this.

Speaker 2:

And I find that it's because men are involved.

Speaker 1:

It's true, it's not their fault and they're not the core faiths fault, and if you don't believe everything and stay away from everything else, you know you're in some sort of bizarre violation of all things holy, and it's just not true. It's just not true. The problem with the American Christian faith right now is the same problem with almost all organizations Nobody knows what they believe and why they believe it. You ask the average Christian what they believe and why they believe it and they cannot tell you. So therefore, stay away from the world. Everybody. Come into the church, close the doors and don't let those people in who ask questions because we don't have any answers, and that, to me, is unacceptable for any organization.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, this is a failing of us, as people were jealous.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right, we're small minded.

Speaker 2:

But in reality, everything is constantly changing and in evolution and we are no different. And you talked about a story of Jesus as a child going into the temple and arguing not necessarily arguing, but probably discussing the tenets of that Absolutely discussing, because it's a journey to get where you're going Right.

Speaker 1:

yeah, and those things have to happen.

Speaker 2:

You can't not have the conversation to get to the point where you want to wind up. You have to do the work, and that includes challenging your ideas, and that will only cement your beliefs. Because you'll come to conclusions we need to challenge those ideas for yourself if you're a critical thinker. And then you'll be more secure in your beliefs.

Speaker 1:

I totally agree. I meant argue in the true sense of the word, not a fight, an argument is just a presentation of facts. That's what an argument is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

He was probably presenting what he was given divinely what we're doing right here.

Speaker 1:

And what we're doing right here Probably just discussion of well, how does that apply, how does this make sense to me, and this kind of a discussion of what I imagine we're making cogent arguments which are based in gentleness, respect, kindness, a desire to teach, a desire to learn, and I find again, the reason why Chris and I are so excited about Freemasonry is because of I think that's one of the main reasons is we are able to discuss openly, amongst brothers of differing opinions and backgrounds, what we believe, why we believe it, for the sole purpose of unity and service and making ourselves better and making of ourselves better.

Speaker 2:

I don't say anything to you to change your mind, Right? Right, I say something to you because you asked a question or because I'm prefacing a question I have for you. Because I want to improve myself, I want to get more knowledge, I want to get more information.

Speaker 1:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

You're absolutely right. This is what I absolutely love. It's a safe place for thinkers Because out in the world. I own a business. I cannot talk about anything Right Because almost it's a landmine. Anything can lead to something that offends somebody or labels you in their mind, and I don't want that to happen in business or with my friends.

Speaker 2:

So there's nowhere else that I get to exercise my critical thinking than when we have Masonic discussions within a lodge Because it's safe and OK to do it there, because we are on the same level of, we love each other and we don't have bad feelings about each other. It really is about trying to understand and get light, get to the light of my light and closer to my creator.

Speaker 1:

We're both having that same experience. That's right.

Speaker 2:

Even though we don't agree a hundred percent on everything. And that's how it's supposed to be.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree, and that's that's where learning comes from, is you? You don't really learn anything. When you're surrounded by people who look like you and sound like you, you don't learn much, but when you're surrounded by people of different beliefs and opinions, it forces you. It has. Being in masonry has forced me to go back to my faith, go back to the things that I've learned and and and reeducate myself On them, and I'm stronger than ever in my faith. You know I'm stronger and ever, that's ever in in the things I believe and and my the reason we started this podcast we really just wanted a place to talk we just wanted a place to talk and to grow, and we needed a reason to do it.

Speaker 2:

We needed to have a thing that made us do this on a regular basis, right?

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, and it's turned into this. It's turned into hundreds of people, 6000 of you around the world, who are, who are.

Speaker 2:

My mind which boggles my mind it's that a degree. Last night, and I'm shaking hands with a brother that I rarely see, and he said You're my head all day, man.

Speaker 1:

I was like oh.

Speaker 2:

What? Okay, I didn't know if it was a good or bad thing, and then it clicked. I'm like, oh, that's right, I have this podcast right. He's like listening to us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah in his head and thinking about the stuff or say I'm still trying to wrap my mind around. That's happening, you know, because and to me I'm a small-minded person I don't do this, it's I'm sitting to you, talking to you, right, things that matter to me, right, think about. But it happens. You know, we released a podcast and, like you said, you get positive and negative feedback. And To the people that give negative feedback, we don't get a lot of it. Some of it is just Arguing a viewpoint, and I think this section of the mentors manual also speaks to that because they're telling you right here when was it that? These symbols you're given the freedom to interpret them for yourself.

Speaker 2:

Right, there isn't a definitive right answer to a lot of things in Freemasonry. And if you present yourself as having definitive right answers in Freemasonry, I Want to use softer words, but the words that come to mind are you're a fool, because nothing you should be sure, very little in life. We, you should be always questioning, always seeking more information and more light. The second we get overly confident that we know things and other people don't, and no one can get any information in us. Our progress has stopped, so you have to kind of stay open to other people's interpretation of things to get more light for yourself. And this is a great example of that, because I know this part of this ritual often turns non-christians off, because they also associate the lion of the tribe of Judah with Jesus. Right, it's just a very commonly known thing to all of us.

Speaker 1:

It's a society, it's a key tenet of the faith. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's it falls it. Without it, there is no Christianity.

Speaker 2:

Exactly so. It's a very important and non-christians I have seen them get annoyed by this here in our district.

Speaker 1:

I've talked to guys that are like I hate this part of the rituals, blah, blah, blah right but it's like brother, open your mind up.

Speaker 2:

You don't have to assign that idea to this. Right look, it's telling you, think about Solomon, think about the leaders of the ancient east, like. There's lots of other ways you can interpret this. Don't get fixated on the one thing that you don't want to interpret it as.

Speaker 1:

Or or maybe go to a brother who who does hold to that and sit down and talk with him and find out. You know, yeah does believe, right, you know and and, and, and, and. Formulate what you believe based on on the, the truths that you hear. I mean, you know, I mean that's, that's just. It's right here to what.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna reread it, because it's exactly what you're saying, go. Our minds must ever be open to the reception of truth from whatever source and, having once received it, to always act agreeably to its dictates. Hence Mason's everywhere are devoted to freedom of thought, of speech and of action.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I mean love it. That's a good one to end on man right there.

Speaker 2:

That's what you're getting at right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's exactly right yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is I Mean. I could go on talking about this part forever. Yeah but this is this is the core of. If you want to know what free Masonry is about, there you go, it is it's about us trying to get more light and trying to respect each other's few points, but and learning how to do that.

Speaker 1:

Right and and learning how to do it, how, how to disagree with a brother and remain in fellowship with him. You know?

Speaker 1:

without becoming offended. Like you said, there's brothers who don't want to hear about the lion of the tribe of Judah. Right, it makes them mad. It's like, well, well, you're looking at it the totally the wrong way. Yeah, masonry wants to teach you how to sit down with that brother over coffee or even an adult beverage, and and understand it. You. You still may come away not agreeing with it, but you will understand it. What you're currently doing is the reason you're. You don't want to hear it. It's because you don't understand it and instead of taking the time to to look into it and to be educated and to learn, You're just rejecting it, walking away from it. You're doing yourself a disservice.

Speaker 2:

Yes, man, big time. It's one of two things Either you're so insecure in your own beliefs that you can't hear anything else because you're afraid you're gonna lose your faith, or there's something else going on here. I think the the brother that said that to me he is not the first case. He is a very smart person. I think it's that he had negative experiences with Christians right, which is very kind in those negative experiences he had with Christians right anything Christian.

Speaker 2:

That again, you've just shut yourself off right receiving light and progressing as a man, right yeah?

Speaker 1:

And I think in in my mind the the best thing I can do for the faith tradition that I hold to is be a good Mason.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so that maybe that brother who had a bad experience and believe me man I've been in.

Speaker 1:

I've been in church for 35 years. I've had some. I could tell you some stories, bro. It is rough in there, but maybe I can be an ex, a positive example of what it looks like to be that man Absolutely and, and I know a shout out to our brother Wade Botkin, who holds to a. Buddhist, buddhist beliefs. He is a. He's a great example of a man who holds to his faith and he's an enigma man.

Speaker 2:

He is, and he just comes in, wait to have him on the show I know right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's gonna be, especially with that ax in it. He's got it. He's from Florida.

Speaker 2:

I know that, like South Carolina draw right, I love that. What so? Wade, by profession is a the psychologist. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 1:

I'm not sure how that works. I know he's. He's a counselor, okay, of some professional Accreditation. I'm not exactly sure if he's all the way up to a doctor, but yeah, he's really good at what he does, for sure.

Speaker 2:

That's his profession, like he dedicated some time of his life to studying right scientific. Yeah, you know principles of people's behaviors and whatnot, but at the same time he's also a pretty diehard spiritualist. Yeah and not cut off to the ideas of many aspects of spirituality and you know, things that we don't understand and can't understand through science. So what a great example of a guy who just keeps asking questions of life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and he didn't let science dictate everything, and he's not gonna let his spirituality dictate everything. He's gonna go through life questioning both yeah, and he's a critical thinker because he knows what he's talking about.

Speaker 1:

So the, the things that he espouses, the things that he espouses are things that he's considered deeply. So you know he speaks with a level of confidence. I just I love hearing him expound about his, his faith and and and his traditions and the way he looks at life, and that's again we're beating this to death a little bit, but that's what masonry should be within the fellowship. You know we, we strive to figure out better and better ways to agree and work together. It's in there. You know, that's part of our part, of part of the, the, the things that we commit to. You know we, we're always looking for better ways to agree. We're always looking for better ways to educate each other, to hold each other up, to serve each other. It's just who we are. It's it's, it's, that's the craft, that's what it is, that's what it should be and that's what you and I, chris, are dedicating ourselves to through this podcast.

Speaker 1:

That's what we want, yeah, for the craft worldwide is to get back to that, that, that place where, when you as a as a as a Master mason in England can walk into your lodge and there's five or six or ten guys in there that you know Be on the shadow of a doubt or your brothers, to the very end.

Speaker 1:

They have your back, a hundred percent, and together you, you teach and learn and grow within this, this idea of masonry that we have. And when are you gonna find that man? I keep going back to where in this work? You tell me, write me, write me right now and an email, send it to me right now when you where you gonna find that, for a men's fraternity that goes that deep into into relationships, friendships and education, you're not gonna find it anywhere.

Speaker 2:

And here's the thing that I want to say. Fred talks a lot about his personal belief, his religion. He's not trying to convert you, okay. He is trying to give you an example of a mason and his viewpoints on masonry. He isn't trying to convert you. I'm not trying to convert you either with anything I say. I'm. Also, neither one of us are saying that we know everything about what we're saying, what we're doing is giving you our two people's viewpoints.

Speaker 2:

That's right that we're talking about and our limited understanding of the things that we're talking about, or we're pontificating for the purposes of, and enhancing the discussion. So don't, for me personally I am not an expert on anything Don't, don't try to follow. What I say is the way. We want you to take the example of what we're doing here and then do the same in your life. Yeah just question things and you know Demand. We talked about religion a lot today because that's what the master mason degree kind of talks about.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, I'm doing it.

Speaker 2:

There is a societal aspect to this as well, like we talked about in the last episode with the ruffians. Yes, there's the spiritual side, but there's also the societal side, and we are men in a community and in a world and you have to carry these ideals yes into your life, yes into your Philosophy, your religion, but also to your politics. So I definitely don't want to get into a political discussion, but on the subject of politics and masonry, I'd say this hold your ideals of masonry to every aspect of your life. Expect people to, especially leaders, to be of the same mind as you. Don't close yourself off to ideas. Be open to change, be open to getting new information and hold people to us Standard of integrity.

Speaker 1:

Yeah again.

Speaker 2:

Stop voting for people that clearly have no integrity and I know that's hard, because they don't give us any options of people other than people that have no Damn integrity.

Speaker 2:

right now, there are very few options but we got to somehow get to a point where we're putting people up for choice that have some integrity and the same kind of ideals that are good in advance, our country, in our society, which is togetherness and listening to people and including people, not identifying bad guys, identifying enemies and writing people off for life, because that isn't how who best can work and best agree is who we should be electing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right. Who best can?

Speaker 2:

work, who is capable and who best can agree with the opposition, who can actually get things done. That's what we should be looking for in our politicians, and I know we're not getting those choices right now. We all know that. Yeah, we absolutely are not, but we got to raise up a generation that understands that's what we demand in this country as people that can work well and agree with each other and get things done, yeah that's make your kids learn these lessons so that they go into the world and maybe they can change it in their generation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you said you, you don't want to have a you know, a political discussion. But actually in masonry it's the same thing as a religious discussion. You can have any discussion you want, as long as it's done with gentleness great with you.

Speaker 2:

Respect 100%.

Speaker 1:

And in with regard to politics, I'm completely open to learning new things. I am neither left nor right in my.

Speaker 1:

There's no left, there's no L or R next to my name, because I I'm simply going back to who can best Benefit the community at large right, because the government was designed, you know it's of the people and by the people, for a reason you know for the common good. It's supposed to be working for the common good. There shouldn't be all these factions and and things within it. We've got if, if masonry truly wants to affect change within the government structure, we've got a lot of work to do that we're called to right and we're called to be.

Speaker 2:

We're absolutely called to our communities. It's supposed to be right.

Speaker 1:

It's our society, our culture and we're species and we're required to hold men and women Accountable to those standards. See, we let them get away with it because most of us are afraid of them and they have all the guns and money and we don't. We don't want to stand up to them because they could cause trouble for us. Well, guess what? We haven't stood up to them for that reason and they're still causing trouble for us. So at some point, men and women need to stand up and say no more change, no more. We need, we need serious change. Here we were. We're bankrupt Morally, we're bankrupt financially, we're bankrupt spiritually. And the, the leading force for good on this planet, is now, is now walking with a limp and ready to stumble man and we I believe.

Speaker 2:

Well, pay attention to what's happening in our country. Yeah because our fraternity could suffer the same fate if we're not very, very, very careful and we seem to be more careful inside of the lodge right yeah, we definitely behave better inside the lodge right. But you need to carry that. Take the training wheels off and go, carry it into your life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I met a brother last night and you know him, it's great guy and he just got back on Facebook. He's been off for three years because he said a bunch of political stuff and got removed and got mad, never went back. But here's the thing Say the political stuff, say it. If you got to say it, just remember your Masonic teachings. Just do it from a place. Don't be hateful in what you have to say right, right what you have to say Stand by what you believe in.

Speaker 2:

You should. You're called to do that, but that doesn't mean your name called demon eyes and other people aren't, aren't, aren't?

Speaker 1:

evil. You're just falling into the trap. They're not like right.

Speaker 2:

They're not an enemy because they don't fully understand you. They don't understand you because you haven't been able to break through on a communication level and you also have to be open to hearing what they have to say. And there's a level of tolerance and temperance that has to be present in order to do that, because society's training us to trigger and get mad and angry and not listen to fight, and it's always the same thing.

Speaker 1:

It's create the two classes, the left and the right, and get them fighting with each other, while those at the top continue to pilfer and steal our time and our lives from us. And it works every time. The crown did it, the kings have done it, and throughout all of history, that's how it works, and we, the people, have to stop doing that. I have learned so much from people. I would be more center right, chris, would be more center left.

Speaker 1:

And I have learned so much from him just from talking with him about his perspectives, why he believes what he believes, and I'm sure he's learned from me as well. Absolutely Back and forth.

Speaker 2:

I always do when I have those conversations and I have one other friend that's hard right and he views me as hard left. That's the way things are. But it's somebody I can at least talk to, and so it's funny, because we will talk for hours about politics and it can get loud and heated, but we both walk away going. You did a good job humanizing your position.

Speaker 1:

And that allowed me to hear more of what you had to say, because I see you as a person.

Speaker 2:

And I'm open to hearing what you have to say when I see you as a person. But when we dehumanize each other, there's no conversation to be had no progress to be made. We're brothers of the same creator. You can call them something different, but yeah, we're living on the same planet, breathing the same air drinking the same water.

Speaker 1:

Country, state, county, city. We are countrymen. And everyone you meet, even the ones who can't stand you because of what you believe, he's still your countryman. We have to get back to that before it's too late. I think Masonry has a role to play in that it absolutely does.

Speaker 2:

It might be the last best chance we have.

Speaker 1:

I keep thinking that more and more, more and more as.

Speaker 2:

I look on the landscape. Religion is only now tying into the same thing as the politics. It's like it's getting hard to have for religious people to talk to each other, just like different politics is. We need a system like Masonry that takes us all together and looks at the bigger picture and says you're right.

Speaker 1:

You're right.

Speaker 2:

You're right. You guys aren't wrong. You're right. Now, what do we do together to fix the problem On a civic level right.

Speaker 1:

How do we make this country, this land, this place a better place, apart from our disagreements? And there's no other forum out there for that, and social media makes it impossible. But face-to-face relationships, talking with people, getting to know them, getting to know their families, that's what does it. And getting back to that, masonry has a role to play. That because that's what we do. We are about face-to-face relationships.

Speaker 1:

We come together and we shake hands, we look each other in the eye and we get to know people. There are struggles, there are triumphs. That's what changes things, because we're forced to be within this fraternity, within this society of different people from different backgrounds, and it's wonderful and I think we've beaten that one to death. But obviously you guys that are listening, you know how we feel about this, this is probably one of our strongest points. I agree. I think they probably do. We get thumbs up on this one all the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know there's a. I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but may you live in interesting times. Well probably a curse more than a blessing.

Speaker 1:

Be careful what you ask for, because we are definitely living in interesting times.

Speaker 2:

Take a deep breath wherever you are and smell it, because you're living in interesting times.

Speaker 1:

That's right, that's right.

Speaker 2:

And the thing about living in interesting times is you have more opportunity to step up and lead and be a hero than in non-interesting times, and both in masonry. I think masonry at least in Florida, it seems to me is trying to get its house in order.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree, I agree.

Speaker 2:

Which is a great, exciting thing to see, because once we get our house in order, we can then go out into the world again with pride and hold our heads up high.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2:

And as an example, let's get out there. Let's show the world what masons are really about, once we take care of our house. Yeah, that's right, man we're living in interesting times all of us, and we get to be a part of this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2:

Engage in it, do it.

Speaker 1:

Be a leader. I'm excited about the things that are coming. We've got a lot of things coming up. We can't really talk too much about them right now, but at Grand Lodge and after Grand Lodge we'll start in season two, We'll start talking more about the direction we want to go and same idea this podcast will always be about masonry and what we love about it and always, always trying to bring you guys, you listeners, into this conversation as much as we possibly can and, more than that, getting you listener to go back out to your lodge and to do something great. Go into your lodge next time you're at Lodge. Do something positive greet a brother, mend a relationship, whatever it is that you have to do to make your lodge experience better for yourself and for all those around you. Go and do that this week, man, and then shoot us an email Tell us what happened.

Speaker 2:

Tell us how things went. We gave homework assignment.

Speaker 1:

That's a homework assignment for every mason listening.

Speaker 2:

Go shake somebody's hand, do something crazy, brah, seriously, bring up an idea in your lodge that you didn't want to say. I had an idea in our lodge. We need to remodel this thing, you know, and everybody probably had the thought, but nobody said it.

Speaker 1:

Right, take it on.

Speaker 2:

You got to just say it and watch what's going to happen. When you say it, your lodge is going to start to come to life. You're going to be like what? I know a guy that can do this. I know a guy that can do that. And then things start to happen. Bring some life into your lodge. Be the guy to do it. Say something crazy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right, your worshipful master will be interested.

Speaker 2:

Actually, he will, he will, he will. They all want to do something great in their year. If they don't have something great, give them something great and if it's not that interesting.

Speaker 1:

That's why he has a gavel.

Speaker 2:

So go for it, let it rip bro, let it rip tater chip. Okay, not that crazy.

Speaker 1:

You want to get crazy, let's get crazy. Oh, I can't wait for that movie.

Speaker 2:

That's another Batman reference.

Speaker 1:

But which Batman? I'm not going to say. Here's what I.

Speaker 2:

Which Batman said. That quote Come on, everyone listening knows Fred can get this right.

Speaker 1:

I'm on meds so I can't.

Speaker 2:

I can't Michael Keaton, that was Michael Keaton, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure it was which was probably one of my favorite Mine too, my favorite Batman. The thing about Batman is, I had a conversation I think I don't know where I was, but a conversation, you know. Batman could be real. Superman, he can't be real. He can't be real. Superman is a fictitious character. But Batman, oh yeah, could be real. Batman could happen. All right, superman not going to happen, spider-man not happening. However, batman could happen, and to me, that's why, of all the superheroes, he will always be my absolute favorite. I have to agree Completely. All right, listen, guys, we have. I've enjoyed my time once again, brother Me too, Hanging out with you talking about our favorite subject.

Speaker 1:

I hope you guys have also enjoyed it. Send us your emails. Let us know what's going on at your lodge. Get out there, do your homework, all right. Get out there, shake somebody's hand, do something that you've never done before within your lodge to affect positive change, and then shoot us an email Tell us how it went, tell us what you did.

Speaker 2:

That's one of the other things we can do. We can be a receptacle of light. You can send us an email and we'll say it and everyone will hear your idea. We want to share what works. We want to share, you know, new ideas that people have that other people haven't heard. So send us that information too, and we'll share it with everybody on your behalf.

Speaker 1:

We definitely will. All right, my brother, until next week, let's just keep building. Build it strong, man, build it strong, build it square.

Speaker 2:

I love it Sounds good. We'll see you next time. Bye, bye.

Exploring Masonry and Masonic Lodges
Faith and Morality in Freemasonry
The Influence of Masonry and Government
Contemplating Symbolism and Rituals in Freemasonry
(Cont.) Contemplating Symbolism and Rituals in Freemasonry
Symbolism and Importance of Freemasonry
Masonry's Importance and Changing Young Men
Lion of Judah Interpretation
The Importance of Open-Mindedness in Freemasonry
Masonry in Politics and Society
Share Your Lodge Experiences and Ideas

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